Maybe Cam Cameron IS Our Guy?

[SunDevilDon]

http://www.chargers.com/team/coaches/cam-cameron.htm

I've been back and forth on Denny, and wouldn't mind Pete Carroll, but after some light research on "Malcolm" Cameron, I like what I see. He's younger, and innovative playcaller, and likes to go to the Tight End, and Pope could be a HUGE threat if we got the ball to him in more situations.

I didn't pay much attention to past Cam Camerson threads so I apologize to the guys who have been on the bandwagon for much longer.

After watching Sean Payton this season, and other innovative playcallers like Nolan Ryan and Mangini, I think he would do the trick. He coached Randel El at Indiana and guys like Harbaugh and Grbac in Mich. Get this...He was Gus Frerotte's QB coach when Gus got to the Pro-Bowl. Now that's something to be proud of.

I don't know if he'd make a good head coach but I'd be willing to give it a shot as the younger guys and more innovative school of thought is outdoing the Gibbs, Green's, Parcells types. Since Denny had success, things have changed, guys are faster and more athletic nowadays and you need to take advantage of that by making your offense and playcalling suit it.

The guy also played basketball for Bob Knight and football for Lee Corso so he certainly has X's and O's mentality. I wonder what his personality is like?

Clancy could still be DC, that would be cool with me.

[ItsInTheCards]

http://www.chargers.com/team/coaches/cam-cameron.htm

I've been back and forth on Denny, and wouldn't mind Pete Carroll, but after some light research on "Malcolm" Cameron, I like what I see. He's younger, and innovative playcaller, and likes to go to the Tight End, and Pope could be a HUGE threat if we got the ball to him in more situations.

I didn't pay much attention to past Cam Camerson threads so I apologize to the guys who have been on the bandwagon for much longer.

After watching Sean Payton this season, and other innovative playcallers like Nolan Ryan and Mangini, I think he would do the trick. He coached Randel El at Indiana and guys like Harbaugh and Grbac in Mich. Get this...He was Gus Frerotte's QB coach when Gus got to the Pro-Bowl. Now that's something to be proud of.

I don't know if he'd make a good head coach but I'd be willing to give it a shot as the younger guys and more innovative school of thought is outdoing the Gibbs, Green's, Parcells types. Since Denny had success, things have changed, guys are faster and more athletic nowadays and you need to take advantage of that by making your offense and playcalling suit it.

The guy also played basketball for Bob Knight and football for Lee Corso so he certainly has X's and O's mentality. I wonder what his personality is like?

Clancy could still be DC, that would be cool with me.


well, Cam's success certainly speaks for itself this year

[SunDevilDon]

well, Cam's success certainly speaks for itself this year

He interviewed for the Rams and Texans jobs last year. I think he will be a Head Coach for sure next season, so if he's not here, we'll see what we missed out on next season when some other team grabs him and the season progresses.

[JCardinal81]

The more I hear and read about this guy, the more I like him.

[Big Red]

He had a difficult time at Indiana.

[BullheadCardFan]

The more I hear and read about this guy, the more I like him.
Ditto ....

[SunDevilDon]

He had a difficult time at Indiana.

What are you talking about, he WON 6 FOOTBALL championships...oh wait a minute...that wasn't Football Amerciano.

Besides, who Hasn't had a hard time coaching that team. They are the Standford of the Big 10 without the brilliance.

[ItsInTheCards]

He had a difficult time at Indiana.


have you seen Green's putrid college records?

[ItsInTheCards]

http://www.chargers.com/team/coaches/cam-cameron.htm

I've been back and forth on Denny, and wouldn't mind Pete Carroll, but after some light research on "Malcolm" Cameron, I like what I see. He's younger, and innovative playcaller, and likes to go to the Tight End, and Pope could be a HUGE threat if we got the ball to him in more situations.

I didn't pay much attention to past Cam Camerson threads so I apologize to the guys who have been on the bandwagon for much longer.

After watching Sean Payton this season, and other innovative playcallers like Nolan Ryan and Mangini, I think he would do the trick. He coached Randel El at Indiana and guys like Harbaugh and Grbac in Mich. Get this...He was Gus Frerotte's QB coach when Gus got to the Pro-Bowl. Now that's something to be proud of.

I don't know if he'd make a good head coach but I'd be willing to give it a shot as the younger guys and more innovative school of thought is outdoing the Gibbs, Green's, Parcells types. Since Denny had success, things have changed, guys are faster and more athletic nowadays and you need to take advantage of that by making your offense and playcalling suit it.

The guy also played basketball for Bob Knight and football for Lee Corso so he certainly has X's and O's mentality. I wonder what his personality is like?

Clancy could still be DC, that would be cool with me.

of all the potential coaches, Cam is the total package. He has been there with Houck to learn about the O-line (before Hudson left for Miami), has had great success with Brees and Rivers, and has seen position coaches on the other side of the ball teach a system that completely obliterates their opponents....right now, the Cards have a starting 3-4 alignment up front if needed

LE: Dockett
NT: Watson
RE: Berry (with a little weight, or draft a guy like Adam Carriker)

they'd just need some LBs

[SunDevilDon]

I change my mind every week, I'd just hate to see him go somewhere else and have a Sean Payton type impact. How much fun is it to watch the Saints? And not just because of Reggie Bush. 4th and 1 and he runs a reverse, gotta love that!!!

I don't think Cam would settle for an OC position, but even if he was available to be an OC, I doubt the cheap guys up top would even consider offering this guy a ton of money to be our OC, regardless of who our HC coach is...This is the number one reason I believe we have been losing for years ($$$$$).

Well you know what, WE GAVE THEM EVERYTHING they wanted. Merchandise sales, New Stadium, Sellout crowd, Dedication by thousands for years when no one else would support them. THEY got all that money from U of P because of the fans, and they need to repay the favor.

This IS a business, but in retail, you can't keep cutting back on payroll and be short handed with no merchandise on the shelves, and expect people to keep coming in looking for the items that you don't want or have.

[JayGee]

I change my mind every week, I'd just hate to see him go somewhere else and have a Sean Payton type impact......[/B]

reality is he could also be a flop. for every sean payton, there's a rod marinelli. for every marvin lewis, there's a romeo crennel.

since we know what we have in green and it actually is beginning to work on the field, i'd rather the organization keep things as they are, make denny earn the $2.5M he's gonna get whether he stays or not, finish out his contract, and then make a decision whether or not to pick up the 5th year option or extend him long term.

even if cam cameron is gone, they'll be plenty of other candidates available as there are every season - mike singletary, ron rivera, pete carroll, charlie weiss, etc. ALL these guys arent going to have nfl jobs next season.

no need to blow up what we've got and take the chance that cam cameron is "the guy" because u just never know.

btw, cam cameron would be high on my list and he'll probably be available after the 2007 season.

[ItsInTheCards]

reality is he could also be a flop. for every sean payton, there's a rod marinelli. for every marvin lewis, there's a romeo crennel.

since we know what we have in green and it actually is beginning to work on the field, i'd rather the organization keep things as they are, make denny earn the $2.5M he's gonna get whether he stays or not, finish out his contract, and then make a decision whether or not to pick up the 5th year option or extend him long term.

even if cam cameron is gone, they'll be plenty of other candidates available as there are every season - mike singletary, ron rivera, pete carroll, charlie weiss, etc. ALL these guys arent going to have nfl jobs next season.

no need to blow up what we've got and take the chance that cam cameron is "the guy" because u just never know.

btw, cam cameron would be high on my list and he'll probably be available after the 2007 season.


in the case of Marinelli & Crennel, you were taking a defensive coach from a HC that had his bread & butter in defense (Belichick & Dungy) Jon inherited Rod, but he was Tony's guy.

in Cameron's case, you're taking a guy from a coach that is certainly not known for his offenses, but known for boring "Marty" ball. Therefore, the success that the Chargers are seeing on that side of the ball is a direct reflection of Cam himself...

btw, this is not a dig, but where is this "option year" on Green's contract coming from? I have seen several posters talk about it, yet I've googled it and came up with nothing....

[JayGee]

....
btw, this is not a dig, but where is this "option year" on Green's contract coming from? I have seen several posters talk about it, yet I've googled it and came up with nothing....

denny got a 5 year deal with the first 4 years guaranteed.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ARI/6988137

[ItsInTheCards]

denny got a 5 year deal with the first 4 years guaranteed.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ARI/6988137


ok, I couldn't find it probably because I was trying to check the archives of the AZ Republic

[Drachir]

denny got a 5 year deal with the first 4 years guaranteed.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ARI/6988137WOW, look at the coaches who were hired that year and what their records are along with success in the total 7 vacancies. It puts it all into perspective.

NY Giants - Tom Coughlin 6-10, 11-5, 7-6
Washington Redskins - Joe Gibbs 6-10, 10-6, 4-9
Arizona Cardinals - Dennis Green 6-10, 5-11, 4-9
Atlanta Falcons - Jim Mora, Jr. 11-5, 8-8, 7-6
Buffalo Bills - Mike Mularky 9-7, 5-11, FIRED
Chicago Bears - Lovie Smith 5-11, 11-5, 11-2
Oakland Raiders - Norv Turner - 5-11, 4-12, FIRED

Out of those seven Dennis Green is the only one that still is employed that has NOT had a winning season.

[Saturn5]

This IS a business, but in retail, you can't keep cutting back on payroll and be short handed with no merchandise on the shelves, and expect people to keep coming in looking for the items that you don't want or have.

But this is different than many other businesses. In the NFL, you can lose and still be profitable. The TV money ensures that. It's like a big fat government corporate subsidy.

I agree with you on Cameron though. I think he's got a lot of promise as a head coach. That's probably why he'll never coach the Cardinals. When was the last time the bidwills hired a young up and coming offensive assistant? They either take a so-called proven head coach or a defensive assistant. The last offensive assistant would have been Joe Bugel, but he was mostly known as a offensive line coach. The last true young offensive mind hired by the Cardinals was Don Coryell. The bidwills have been about as bad as a team can get when hiring head coaches. Denny Green being the latest example. Wrong coach at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.

[JayGee]

..... The bidwills have been about as bad as a team can get when hiring head coaches. Denny Green being the latest example. Wrong coach at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.

yet you want to count on them making the right decision THIS time... that's one of the things that scares me.

heck, now that it's kinda working, i'd rather the bidwill's just do nothing.... for now

[Saturn5]

yet you want to count on them making the right decision THIS time... that's one of the things that scares me.

heck, now that it's kinda working, i'd rather the bidwill's just do nothing.... for now

No...doing nothing is what they've done the last 2 and half seasons while the team went right down the tubes.

The glimmer of hope is that either the new GM is a real football guy with some clue about hiring head coaches or that the league steps in and gives the bidwills some guidance. Regardless, a change is essential. Denny's time is up.

[VACardsFan74]

WOW, look at the coaches who were hired that year and what their records are along with success in the total 7 vacancies. It puts it all into perspective.

NY Giants - Tom Coughlin 6-10, 11-5, 7-6
Washington Redskins - Joe Gibbs 6-10, 10-6, 4-9
Arizona Cardinals - Dennis Green 6-10, 5-11, 4-9
Atlanta Falcons - Jim Mora, Jr. 11-5, 8-8, 7-6
Buffalo Bills - Mike Mularky 9-7, 5-11, FIRED
Chicago Bears - Lovie Smith 5-11, 11-5, 11-2
Oakland Raiders - Norv Turner - 5-11, 4-12, FIRED

Out of those seven Dennis Green is the only one that still is employed that has NOT had a winning season.

If DG wins the next 3 I say let him finish out next year too....after all...........
"He IS who we thought he".....uhhh......WERE......:football: :biggrin:

[OutlawCards]

No...doing nothing is what they've done the last 2 and half seasons while the team went right down the tubes.

The glimmer of hope is that either the new GM is a real football guy with some clue about hiring head coaches or that the league steps in and gives the bidwills some guidance. Regardless, a change is essential. Denny's time is up.




I'm not gonna get in this conversation once again but, I do get the distinct impression that some of the fans that visit this board are just plain delusional... Green needs to at least be left to finish his 4 years (And, for once see this franchise do something they haven't done )... The TEAM WENT DOWN THE DRAIN Over the last 2 1/2 years..... "Where the :Censored: were you the previous 16 years???????..... I swear some of you act like the coaches we get in here have ruined some long winning tradition this franchise has had... This team finally has more talent than they have had since comming here and, I can wait to see what happens and, if he blows next season.. we'll have that time to get the right coach for the job... This team went down the drain 2 1/2 years ago..... I think that's the funniest thing I've seen on this board in along time.. I'm very, very suprised alot of you aren't still blaming Buddy Ryan for this years season... Just plain sad... I would have thought alot of fans would be tired of the same old system of bringing in a new coach and new system every 3 years and seeing how much of a complete and utter failure the old way of doing things has been... When Green got hired here it was interesting seeing how most of the non-delusional Cards fans said from the beginning how NO Coach would be able to turn this franchise around in less than 3 full years... Funny how things have changed.. I guess alot of fans here need another 20 years of losing before they realize the owner ship need to start trying something different... When the Cards were losing even Denny got up and said that when you're losing you have to try different things that you normally wouldn't to try and change things but, most of the fans I've seen post on this site are content with the same ole, same ole... :banghead: :banghead: I'll stick by my position... IMO I think this team is the closest it's been since arriving here but, hey... All the.... It's the coaches fault " AGAIN ! ! ! ! !" posters... I'm sure will be content making these same post 3 years from now with a new coach and, I'm sure.... Very different Players... These post are so, very, very old now...

[BoomerFan480]

I think Cam Cameron would be a great fit.
ive been reading up more on him, and im impressed.
though, i dont see us hiring anybody new for 07.
Denny will remain next year i have a bad feeling.

[OutlawCards]

I think Cam Cameron would be a great fit.
ive been reading up more on him, and im impressed.
though, i dont see us hiring anybody new for 07.
Denny will remain next year i have a bad feeling.




It shouldn't give you a bad feeling at all... It should show you that maybe, just maybe Michael Bidwill has seen that his dads old way of doing things was great for keeping minimal numbers of fans happy enough to continue to buy tickets but, was horrible in building a winning team and getting the maximun number of Cards fans here in the Valley... I for 1 wuld be happy to see them do something different and, try something new in an attempt to turn things around... Even if it seems extreme to some.. It would show that they at least care about turning things around here and not just about ticket sales..

[Cardsfan50]

WOW, look at the coaches who were hired that year and what their records are along with success in the total 7 vacancies. It puts it all into perspective.

NY Giants - Tom Coughlin 6-10, 11-5, 7-6
Washington Redskins - Joe Gibbs 6-10, 10-6, 4-9
Arizona Cardinals - Dennis Green 6-10, 5-11, 4-9
Atlanta Falcons - Jim Mora, Jr. 11-5, 8-8, 7-6
Buffalo Bills - Mike Mularky 9-7, 5-11, FIRED
Chicago Bears - Lovie Smith 5-11, 11-5, 11-2
Oakland Raiders - Norv Turner - 5-11, 4-12, FIRED

Out of those seven Dennis Green is the only one that still is employed that has NOT had a winning season.

Green is also the only one who came to Arizona to battle our culture of losing. It could be it just took longer here because this franchise was so much worse off than the others. That is what makes me wonder if he shouldn't get a chance to stay one more year.

Hire a good GM, have a "special assistant" ready to take over if Green is a bust next year again, but give him a chance to keep the momentum going next year. All that, of course, hinges on them continuing to play well the rest of this year.

[OutlawCards]

Green is also the only one who came to Arizona to battle our culture of losing. It could be it just took longer here because this franchise was so much worse off than the others. That is what makes me wonder if he shouldn't get a chance to stay one more year.

Hire a good GM, have a "special assistant" ready to take over if Green is a bust next year again, but give him a chance to keep the momentum going next year. All that, of course, hinges on them continuing to play well the rest of this year.




You are right in some ways... IMO... I say Keep him even if we lose to San Diego (which I'm expecting and, Maybe 9er's at their place) But what everyone fails to realize is that... If we go into the end of the season losing... The Cards should keep Green and, make NO problem being public to the media and, everyone else that they might be forced to find a new head coach (Pressure works for players and "COACHES" in the league) If Denny doesn't like it and he quits... Guess what... He doesn't get his money... That's the one thing everyone seems to be missing on this board... (Alot of teams make an impact between year 2 and 3 with a new head coach but, being a realistic Cards fan.... I figured it would be between years 3 and 4... To much losing to expect the norm here... Better to error on the side of caution and common sense).. Then They'll at least had time to speak with other coaches to see who might be able to take over on a short notice and still be a good fit... Basically... being smart and taking their time to finally do what's right in the best interest of the team and not to just sell tickets.. The smart move is to leave things as they are because I'm pretty sure "EVERY" smart Cards fan can see what made and broke this season (Let's be honest.... We beat the Bears like we should have... No one on this board is even having this conversation).. Denny wins the games we need next year... No One on this board will want him gone... He starts out losing.. The Cards still have the off season and, the beginning of the next season to take time and do it right and not rush into this... It will definitely work alot better than doing the same thing they've been doing so far... I personally am still laughing about how the Cards have gone down the tubes in the last 2 1/2 years... That one is still making me laugh... I like that one.. That one should have been posted on the Chicago Cubs Baseball forum.... :bibl:

[Darth Llama]

The decision was easy 4 weeks ago. We were the worst team in the NFL and looked like we were going downhill faster and faster.

Lately though, things have changed and we have been showing obvious marked improvement that is even getting notice throughout the NFL. I am willing to cut Denny a little slack and realize that he had to battle odds that most new coaches don't. It's one thing to restore prominence to a proud organization like the Bears. It's another thing all together to try and pull a pathetic team with a history of losing into the light of a winning franchise. There comes a time when some of us have to put aside personal bias and hatred and focus on what is best for the Arizona Cardinals. As much as I hate Denny Green, after 3+ years his system is finally starting to work. Cameron seems like a good guy, but bringing in a new coach forces us to start over and if we are improving then do we really want to start over again?

If we continue to play well and win 2 of our 3 remaining games, then I don't think it would be wise to bring in a new coach. As I said before, my love of the Cardinals is going to have to outweigh my hatred of Dennis Green. It's going to be hard for some fans to face things from a non biased angle but remember people, we have said the same thing all year and it still holds true today..

"The only important thing, is winning."

If Denny gets us wins.. he has my support. I am tired of "rebuilding."

[VACardsFan74]

I'm not gonna get in this conversation once again but, I do get the distinct impression that some of the fans that visit this board are just plain delusional... Green needs to at least be left to finish his 4 years (And, for once see this franchise do something they haven't done )... The TEAM WENT DOWN THE DRAIN Over the last 2 1/2 years..... "Where the :Censored: were you the previous 16 years???????..... I swear some of you act like the coaches we get in here have ruined some long winning tradition this franchise has had... This team finally has more talent than they have had since comming here and, I can wait to see what happens and, if he blows next season.. we'll have that time to get the right coach for the job... This team went down the drain 2 1/2 years ago..... I think that's the funniest thing I've seen on this board in along time.. I'm very, very suprised alot of you aren't still blaming Buddy Ryan for this years season... Just plain sad... I would have thought alot of fans would be tired of the same old system of bringing in a new coach and new system every 3 years and seeing how much of a complete and utter failure the old way of doing things has been... When Green got hired here it was interesting seeing how most of the non-delusional Cards fans said from the beginning how NO Coach would be able to turn this franchise around in less than 3 full years... Funny how things have changed.. I guess alot of fans here need another 20 years of losing before they realize the owner ship need to start trying something different... When the Cards were losing even Denny got up and said that when you're losing you have to try different things that you normally wouldn't to try and change things but, most of the fans I've seen post on this site are content with the same ole, same ole... :banghead: :banghead: I'll stick by my position... IMO I think this team is the closest it's been since arriving here but, hey... All the.... It's the coaches fault " AGAIN ! ! ! ! !" posters... I'm sure will be content making these same post 3 years from now with a new coach and, I'm sure.... Very different Players... These post are so, very, very old now...

Nice rant...I agree....we've been in the dumps for a lonnng time...and right now...things are actually turning positive...a few more players on D and I think we CAN turn the corner next year....

[Saturn5]

Green needs to at least be left to finish his 4 years (And, for once see this franchise do something they haven't done )... The TEAM WENT DOWN THE DRAIN Over the last 2 1/2 years..... "Where the :Censored: were you the previous 16 years???????..... I swear some of you act like the coaches we get in here have ruined some long winning tradition this franchise has had... I would have thought alot of fans would be tired of the same old system of bringing in a new coach and new system every 3 years and seeing how much of a complete and utter failure the old way of doing things has been..

Actually, it's only been 8 years since we were in the playoffs, so your "facts" are already in question. So staying the course of maintaining the losing tradition of the last 8 years, is preferable to making a change?

And again you're wrong about turning a franchise around in less than 3 full years.

Sean Payton
Marvin Lewis
Lovie Smith
John Fox
Jack Del Rio
Eric Mangini
Mike Holmgren

Less than 3 years is the league standard.

[Tangodnzr]

denny got a 5 year deal with the first 4 years guaranteed.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ARI/6988137



That was a preliminary report from NFL com.

The actual deal was a 4 year contract with an option for a 5th year.

Your post above is only YOUR interpretation. It has been posted a number of times since. 4 years plus an option for a 5th.

Call that 5th year "Not guaranteed" if you want. Its still essentially the same net result.

As usual you just play word games and twist facts to suit your own eternal spin.

[JayGee]

That was a preliminary report from NFL com.

The actual deal was a 4 year contract with an option for a 5th year.

Your post above is only YOUR interpretation. It has been posted a number of times since. 4 years plus an option for a 5th.

Call that 5th year "Not guaranteed" if you want. Its still essentially the same net result.

As usual you just play word games and twist facts to suit your own eternal spin.

tango,

you are always **** with me and i dont know why.... look at my first post in this thread:

....i'd rather the organization keep things as they are, make denny earn the $2.5M he's gonna get whether he stays or not, finish out his contract, and then make a decision whether or not to pick up the 5th year option or extend him long term....

i KNOW what the contract was; just as YOU said, so we AGREE, that it was a 4 year contract with a 5th year option... dammnnn

i gave a link to the guy and was just making a point that we have to pay denny $2.5M his 4th guaranteed year and there is a 5th year option... where you see spin in that is beyond me... your head must be spinning... lay off that viagra

[JayGee]

Actually, it's only been 8 years since we were in the playoffs, so your "facts" are already in question. So staying the course of maintaining the losing tradition of the last 8 years, is preferable to making a change?

And again you're wrong about turning a franchise around in less than 3 full years.

Sean Payton
Marvin Lewis
Lovie Smith
John Fox
Jack Del Rio
Eric Mangini
Mike Holmgren

Less than 3 years is the league standard.


what you fail to realize is none of these guys had to build their teams from the ground up... each of them came into situations with GOOD PLAYERS. sean payton would have never had the success he has now with the roster dave mcginnis left here in 2003.... neither would any of the other guys.

hate denny.... love the cards.... the wins are coming!

[Saturn5]

I say Keep him even if we lose to San Diego (which I'm expecting and, Maybe 9er's at their place)

That would mean a final record of 5-11, same as last season, and an overall Cardinal career record of 16-32. Wow, that deserves a reward of keeping denny employed? It would be just like the Cardinals to do something that ridiculously stupid. Apparently some have become quite comfortable as losers. Many times, low expectations will produce low results.

[Saturn5]

what you fail to realize is none of these guys had to build their teams from the ground up... each of them came into situations with GOOD PLAYERS. sean payton would have never had the success he has now with the roster dave mcginnis left here in 2003.... neither would any of the other guys.

hate denny.... love the cards.... the wins are coming!

marvin lewis was probably dealing with at least as bad of a situation as denny. And let's not forget denny had some decent players to work with as well. Q, Adrian Wilson, and supposedly a top five athlete at QB. Not to mention the fact that he got rid of some decent players as well. Most new coaches come into a situation where some major work must be done. A new coach wants "his" players that will fit "his" system. Denny's situation was no different or more extreme than most other new coaches.

[JayGee]

marvin lewis was probably dealing with at least as bad of a situation as denny. And let's not forget denny had some decent players to work with as well. Q, Adrian Wilson, and supposedly a top five athlete at QB. Not to mention the fact that he got rid of some decent players as well. Most new coaches come into a situation where some major work must be done. A new coach wants "his" players that will fit "his" system. Denny's situation was no different or more extreme than most other new coaches.

"top five athlete at QB" = mccown????????????????? isnt he running pass routes in a reserve role in detroit????????

gimmeabreak

sean payton has drew brees, reggie bush, deuce mccallister, joe horn - 3 of those 4 guys has been to the pro bowl and reggie bush --- well, reggie bush is reggie bush!

you cannot compare the 2 situations.

[JayGee]

marvin lewis was probably dealing with at least as bad of a situation as denny. And let's not forget denny had some decent players to work with as well. Q, Adrian Wilson, and supposedly a top five athlete at QB. Not to mention the fact that he got rid of some decent players as well. Most new coaches come into a situation where some major work must be done. A new coach wants "his" players that will fit "his" system. Denny's situation was no different or more extreme than most other new coaches.

marvin lewis came into a situation with 2 1000yd backs in rudi johnson and corey dillon. and dont forget Ocho-Cinco. faaaaarr from the same situation

[Saturn5]

"top five athlete at QB" = mccown????????????????? isnt he running pass routes in a reserve role in detroit????????



That was denny's description of Josh.

[Saturn5]

"top five athlete at QB" = mccown????????????????? isnt he running pass routes in a reserve role in detroit????????

gimmeabreak

sean payton has drew brees, reggie bush, deuce mccallister, joe horn - 3 of those 4 guys has been to the pro bowl and reggie bush --- well, reggie bush is reggie bush!

you cannot compare the 2 situations.

Drew Brees obtained this year
Reggie Bush obtained this year
Deuce Mccallister injured and did not play well at all last year
Joe Horn was below par last year with only 1 TD.

Sean Payton has made that team into a division leader, with the #1 offense in the league and a serious contender for moving deeply into the playoffs. And all this in his first season. Weren't those the kind of things expected by Denny in his first season. It's now year three and we are gauranteed yet another losing season. Time for denny to go.

[Saturn5]

marvin lewis came into a situation with 2 1000yd backs in rudi johnson and corey dillon. and dont forget Ocho-Cinco. faaaaarr from the same situation

yeah you're right. The Bengals could have easily been considered far worse than the cardinals, considering the fact that the bengals were 2-14 when Marvin Lewis took over.

There's talented players on every team, every year. The bengals were no different, neither were the cardinals. It takes good coaching to get those players to win and win consistently. Marvin Lewis did that in his third year and actually has not had one losing season yet in nearly 4 full seasons.

That's good coaching. Something the Cardinals do not have.

[JayGee]

Drew Brees obtained this year
Reggie Bush obtained this year
Deuce Mccallister injured and did not play well at all last year
Joe Horn was below par last year with only 1 TD.

Sean Payton has made that team into a division leader, with the #1 offense in the league and a serious contender for moving deeply into the playoffs. And all this in his first season. Weren't those the kind of things expected by Denny in his first season. It's now year three and we are gauranteed yet another losing season. Time for denny to go.

Drew Brees obtained this year pro-bowler
Reggie Bush obtained this year heisman trophy winner
Deuce Mccallister injured and did not play well at all last year before injury, perpetual top 5 back, healthy all season
Joe Horn was below par last year with only 1 TD. perpetual top receiver; who didnt have a sub-par year during the katrina season on the saints?

the point is sean payton had a full plate to work with and has made the most of it. heck, i'd love to see what he could do with the guys we have here NOW. but we had to wait for denny to get these guys here. it took some time. sean payton is unavailable and it's a crap shoot at best to predict the next "sean payton". sean payton wouldnt be considered special if just any new guy could accomplish what he has?

denny is predictable when he has a full plate - 97-62. he has a full plate now; give him his 4th year to get us to the promise of "playoffs". i'd feel a lot more comfortable handing off a playoff team to the next coach rather than starting a rebuilding project.

[Saturn5]

denny is predictable when he has a full plate - 97-62. he has a full plate now; give him his 4th year to get us to the promise of "playoffs". i'd feel a lot more comfortable handing off a playoff team to the next coach rather than starting a rebuilding project.


If denny's as good of a talent evaluator as some people say he is, then a new coach should be able to merely walk in as Sean Payton supposedly did and "coach" the Cardinals into the playoffs.

Denny's had his chance. 3 years is enough time for the rest of the new coaches. Shouldn't be any different for denny.

[Saturn5]

Deuce Mccallister before injury, perpetual top 5 back, healthy all season

.

Hardly. 2 times in six seasons. That's one of the reasons Reggie was drafted.

[Saturn5]

Drew Brees obtained this year pro-bowler So was Kurt Warner. Actually a mutiple Pro Bowler and won a Super Bowl and MVP
Reggie Bush obtained this year heisman trophy winner Matt Leinart was also a Heisman trophy winner and called by many draft experts as the most ready NFL QB in quite some time.
Deuce Mccallister injured and did not play well at all last year before injury, perpetual top 5 back, healthy all season Edgerrin James is at least the back that Deuce is and is more reliable. 5 - 1,000+ yard seasons, multiple pro bowler.
Joe Horn was below par last year with only 1 TD. perpetual top receiver; who didnt have a sub-par year during the katrina season on the saints? Anquan Boldin is at least the receiver Joe Horn is with 2 seasons in top five receiving.



Again it's coaching. Something the Cardinals do not presently have. It's about time we get a head coach that can take all this talent and actually produce a winning season.

[JayGee]

Drew Brees obtained this year pro-bowler So was Kurt Warner. Actually a mutiple Pro Bowler and won a Super Bowl and MVP
Reggie Bush obtained this year heisman trophy winner Matt Leinart was also a Heisman trophy winner and called by many draft experts as the most ready NFL QB in quite some time.
Deuce Mccallister injured and did not play well at all last year before injury, perpetual top 5 back, healthy all season Edgerrin James is at least the back that Deuce is and is more reliable. 5 - 1,000+ yard seasons, multiple pro bowler.
Joe Horn was below par last year with only 1 TD. perpetual top receiver; who didnt have a sub-par year during the katrina season on the saints? Anquan Boldin is at least the receiver Joe Horn is with 2 seasons in top five receiving.



Again it's coaching. Something the Cardinals do not presently have. It's about time we get a head coach that can take all this talent and actually produce a winning season.


of these guys, ONLY anquan boldin was here in green's FIRST YEAR. and that's the same season he tore up his knee and missed half the games.

logic goes right over your head... you've already got the mindset of "anybody but denny".

[Saturn5]

of these guys, ONLY anquan boldin was here in green's FIRST YEAR. and that's the same season he tore up his knee and missed half the games.

you've already got the mindset of "anybody but denny".

But they were ALL here at the beginning of Sean Payton's Career with the saints. So with comparable talent, and some might say Denny had superior talent, Sean has succeeded where denny has failed. Coaching is what the Cardinals obviously lack.

And no I don't want "anybody but Denny." I want the right coach to get this team to win. Denny's not the right guy, he's proven it over the last 3 seasons.

3 years, and still a losing team = New coach.

[JayGee]

....

3 years, and still a losing team = New coach.

well that philosophy would definitely be in line with the script for the last 19 years in phoenix for the cardinals. are you kin to the bidwill's by chance?

[Saturn5]

well that philosophy would definitely be in line with the script for the last 19 years in phoenix for the cardinals. are you kin to the bidwill's by chance?

Actually that's the NFL philosophy. The bidwills, on the other hand have not always adhered to that unwritten rule. Gene Stallings was in the midst of his 4th losing season. Joe Bugel lasted 4 full seasons of losing.

Are you sure you're a Cardinals fan?

[JayGee]

Actually that's the NFL philosophy. The bidwills, on the other hand have not always adhered to that unwritten rule. Gene Stallings was in the midst of his 4th losing season. Joe Bugel lasted 4 full seasons of losing.

Are you sure you're a Cardinals fan?

6 coaches
18 years

18 years / 6 coaches = 1 coach every 3 years

yep, i was right....

[Saturn5]

6 coaches
18 years

18 years / 6 coaches = 1 coach every 3 years

yep, i was right....

Because the average is 3 years doesn't mean they didn't break the "script" once or twice.

But your logic is backwards.

They didn't fail to win because they only kept their coaches for 3-4 years. The fact is, they only kept their coaches for 3-4 years BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WIN. Big difference. A coach needs to win in years 1-3 to earn the right to continue coaching. That's setting the expectations correctly.

Once they figure out how to select a head coach that makes decisions based on football knowledge instead of ego or lack of football knowledge, then they'll have a winner. And it won't take 4 seasons to do it.

besides which, what better offseason could they choose then this upcoming offseason to switch coaches. There's a chance they may be the only team looking for a new coach. The pool of candidates should be quite extensive.

[VACardsFan74]

Because the average is 3 years doesn't mean they didn't break the "script" once or twice.

But your logic is backwards.

They didn't fail to win because they only kept their coaches for 3-4 years. The fact is, they only kept their coaches for 3-4 years BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WIN. Big difference. A coach needs to win in years 1-3 to earn the right to continue coaching. That's setting the expectations correctly.

Once they figure out how to select a head coach that makes decisions based on football knowledge instead of ego or lack of football knowledge, then they'll have a winner. And it won't take 4 seasons to do it.

besides which, what better offseason could they choose then this upcoming offseason to switch coaches. There's a chance they may be the only team looking for a new coach. The pool of candidates should be quite extensive.

Lack of continuity seems to be one of the biggest factors involved...unless we're talking about continually losing...the prescription for winning isn't necessarily herding coaches in and out every 3 years...obviously there are other factors involved....and hopefully the Bidwills are addressing all of the factors one by one...

[Saturn5]

Lack of continuity seems to be one of the biggest factors involved...unless we're talking about continually losing...the prescription for winning isn't necessarily herding coaches in and out every 3 years...obviously there are other factors involved....and hopefully the Bidwills are addressing all of the factors one by one...

They are not losing because they switch coaches.

There's plenty of continuity that is created between years 1 and 3. That's a long time in professional sports. That's more than half of an average NFL player's career. If a coach can't establish a winning formula in 3 years, then perhaps the formula doesn't work. Besides, most teams have to rebuild to a certain extent nearly every year anyway. Players are not re-signed, they get injured, they retire etc etc. And the playbook gets updated as well, not to mention the assistant coaches who leave, get promoted, get fired etc.

Most places of business will not accept failure for three straight years. Even 2 years of failure is unacceptable to most busines owners and rightfully so. Consistent improvement is a pretty good barometer and that has not been shown with this team.
The bidwills happen to own a business that can still be profitable while losing on the field. While I would agree there is definitely something else going on. Most notably a problem of mismanagement by ownership. But the ownership is not going to change. The only thing we can hope for is that the NFL step in and give the team some much needed guidance in choosing a new GM and a new coach who best suits this team and can get them on the winning track in 1-2 years. Denny Green is obviously not that coach. So, replace him, follow the NFL's advice for replacement and see the positive changes that are possible by a well run organization.

[VACardsFan74]

They are not losing because they switch coaches.

There's plenty of continuity that is created between years 1 and 3. That's a long time in professional sports. That's more than half of an average NFL player's career. If a coach can't establish a winning formula in 3 years, then perhaps the formula doesn't work. Besides, most teams have to rebuild to a certain extent nearly every year anyway. Players are not re-signed, they get injured, they retire etc etc. And the playbook gets updated as well, not to mention the assistant coaches who leave, get promoted, get fired etc.

Most places of business will not accept failure for three straight years. Even 2 years of failure is unacceptable to most busines owners and rightfully so. Consistent improvement is a pretty good barometer and that has not been shown with this team.
The bidwills happen to own a business that can still be profitable while losing on the field. While I would agree there is definitely something else going on. Most notably a problem of mismanagement by ownership. But the ownership is not going to change. The only thing we can hope for is that the NFL step in and give the team some much needed guidance in choosing a new GM and a new coach who best suits this team and can get them on the winning track in 1-2 years. Denny Green is obviously not that coach. So, replace him, follow the NFL's advice for replacement and see the positive changes that are possible by a well run organization.

"Continuity"...as I'm defining it...is always coupled with the word "momentum"...and I mean momentum in a positive direction...you can do the same things for 3 years in a row, but it has to have started SOMETHING positive..E.G., a few winning seasons in a row...continous momentum is what I mean....like the Steelers get mostly...except for this year..

[Saturn5]

"Continuity"...as I'm defining it...is always coupled with the word "momentum"...and I mean momentum in a positive direction...you can do the same things for 3 years in a row, but it has to have started SOMETHING positive..E.G., a few winning seasons in a row...continous momentum is what I mean....like the Steelers get mostly...except for this year..


momentum happens in sports from scoring and winning. Without winning, the continuity or momentum, dies.

That's what's happened in 2 and half years of Denny Green's coaching. Now at the end of the third year, they manage to win 2 games in a row and some feel that's enough to keep the coach around for next season.

The momentum is gone. there was plenty of opportunity to build and establish momentum but now that has passed. Losing has sapped any momentum this team may have had at one point. So now it's time to give someone else a chance who can build a winning formula from day one. Not in the 44th game of his tenure. But in the very first game and throughout the first season.

[Drachir]

momentum happens in sports from scoring and winning. Without winning, the continuity or momentum, dies.

That's what's happened in 2 and half years of Denny Green's coaching. Now at the end of the third year, they manage to win 2 games in a row and some feel that's enough to keep the coach around for next season.

The momentum is gone. there was plenty of opportunity to build and establish momentum but now that has passed. Losing has sapped any momentum this team may have had at one point. So now it's time to give someone else a chance who can build a winning formula from day one. Not in the 44th game of his tenure. But in the very first game and throughout the first season.Not to defend Dennis Green but going back to your Sean Peyton coaching analysis and with all due respect Saturn the Saints have an offensive line that is pro bowl caliber where the Cardinals can only sniff pro bowl mentality when it comes to the offensive line. The Center position in my opinion is the most important on the offensive line in which ours is very, very weak at best.

T - Jon Stinchcomb
G - Jahri Evans
C - Jeff Faine
G - Jamar Nesbit
T - Jammal Brown

[BoomerFan480]

I want to know,
do you really think, IF, we brought Cam Cameron in to coach the 2007 season, we would do worse than this year?? Why do i have a feeling that a coach of his caliber would leave us at the end of the season sitting at 8-8 if not better??

call me crazy.

[BoomerFan480]

The Center position in my opinion is the most important on the offensive line in which ours is very, very weak at best.

T - Jon Stinchcomb
G - Jahri Evans
C - Jeff Faine
G - Jamar Nesbit
T - Jammal Brown

i think our center is our biggest o-line concern. sure, i was hoping for Joe Thomas, but thats because hes an amazing player.. anybody know if theres any centers worth even considering in the draft?? Like i said before, i wish we could steal Jeff Saturday from the Colts. I think hes the best center in the nfl.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

i think our center is our biggest o-line concern. sure, i was hoping for Joe Thomas, but thats because hes an amazing player.. anybody know if theres any centers worth even considering in the draft?? Like i said before, i wish we could steal Jeff Saturday from the Colts. I think hes the best center in the nfl.

Doug Datish and Kyle Young would both fit well for us in the draft, look for us to take one in the third round.

[red_rider]

Doug Datish and Kyle Young would both fit well for us in the draft, look for us to take one in the third round.

K. Young is by far the best C in next years draft IMO. 6-4 320lb. a huge C and would look great in Cardinal Red.

Would be a great 2nd round pick for us if we could get him.

CARDS RULE!!

[BERTRAND #92]

LE: Dockett
NT: Watson
RE: Berry (with a little weight, or draft a guy like Adam Carriker)

they'd just need some LBs


Excellent , excellent post :bowdown:

Man i'd love to see that happen. Berry and his injuries are a legitimate concern, and Adam Carriker would be a nice pickup if we could snag him in next years draft.

[Saturn5]

Not to defend Dennis Green but going back to your Sean Peyton coaching analysis and with all due respect Saturn the Saints have an offensive line that is pro bowl caliber where the Cardinals can only sniff pro bowl mentality when it comes to the offensive line. The Center position in my opinion is the most important on the offensive line in which ours is very, very weak at best.

T - Jon Stinchcomb
G - Jahri Evans
C - Jeff Faine
G - Jamar Nesbit
T - Jammal Brown

Did denny not have a substantial input on personnel decisions?

And how are most successful teams built? From the line out. Sean Payton and the saints understand this. Denny obviously does not. Not to mention the fact that Leonard davis was switched by Denny, Oliver Ross was signed by denny. Step and Leckey were denny draft choices. It's like a broken record. The mistakes were repeated early and often.

Jeff Faine was signed this season. Jammal Brown is only in his second year. Jahri Evans is in his first year. That is coaching, plain and simple, Payton has it. denny doesn't.

[Drachir]

Did denny not have a substantial input on personnel decisions?

And how are most successful teams built? From the line out. Sean Payton and the saints understand this. Denny obviously does not. Not to mention the fact that Leonard davis was switched by Denny, Oliver Ross was signed by denny. Step and Leckey were denny draft choices. It's like a broken record. The mistakes were repeated early and often.

Jeff Faine was signed this season. Jammal Brown is only in his second year. Jahri Evans is in his first year. That is coaching, plain and simple, Payton has it. denny doesn't.You have a point there Saturn. I will say this though Pete Kendall was NOT our answer either. There is several offensive lineman that I wished we would have picked up this last offseason but didn't. That has probably been Dennis Green's biggest mistake as duly noted in my signature since the beginning of this message board. That and the coaches that he has had at offensive line. Although we are starting to see flashes of a decent offensive line especially since they have played together the past 4 weeks.

I have mixed feelings about whether to release Dennis Green or to retain him. On one hand I say get rid of the bum since he has done nothing since he has came here. On the other hand I see this team gelling and think it would be a mistake to release him when the components are finally in place. Leaning more toward replacing him since we have all the components in place and it would be easier for us to have a coach like Sean Peyton or Jim Mora, Jr. who can step in and take this team to the playoffs in their first season. I would like to see Cam Cameron take his place if we do release Dennis Green. I have made that well known since the bye week. Pete Carroll would be another coach that I wouldn't mind seeing take over since we have the talent here and he would be a Bill Billicheck clone with failure his first stint in the NFL and success in his second true stint. I say that because you really can't count Pete Carroll's stint with the Jets as his first one.

[VACardsFan74]

momentum happens in sports from scoring and winning. Without winning, the continuity or momentum, dies.

That's what's happened in 2 and half years of Denny Green's coaching. Now at the end of the third year, they manage to win 2 games in a row and some feel that's enough to keep the coach around for next season.

The momentum is gone. there was plenty of opportunity to build and establish momentum but now that has passed. Losing has sapped any momentum this team may have had at one point. So now it's time to give someone else a chance who can build a winning formula from day one. Not in the 44th game of his tenure. But in the very first game and throughout the first season.

I think you're stating exactly what I am...except you're looking at 3-year periods...and I'm looking at the ENTIRE history of this franchise..the momentum has never been there..in a long-term sense...except for maybe the mid-70's for about 4 years...this franchise is like a WW-II battleship as far what it takes to get this thing going...the consistency of scoring, stopping the scoring, winning...winning road games....winning two road games in row...having a winning home record.... .500 road record or better...making the playoffs...winning the first 2 rounds...getting to NFC championship, etc, etc....and then having the CONFIDENCE to know it can be done all over again with the team you have...it's not just about the coach...and I'm sure you knew that...we're talking about the same things though...I believe...

[Saturn5]

You have a point there Saturn. I will say this though Pete Kendall was NOT our answer either. There is several offensive lineman that I wished we would have picked up this last offseason but didn't. That has probably been Dennis Green's biggest mistake as duly noted in my signature since the beginning of this message board. That and the coaches that he has had at offensive line. Although we are starting to see flashes of a decent offensive line especially since they have played together the past 4 weeks.

I have mixed feelings about whether to release Dennis Green or to retain him. On one hand I say get rid of the bum since he has done nothing since he has came here. On the other hand I see this team gelling and think it would be a mistake to release him when the components are finally in place. Leaning more toward replacing him since we have all the components in place and it would be easier for us to have a coach like Sean Peyton or Jim Mora, Jr. who can step in and take this team to the playoffs in their first season. I would like to see Cam Cameron take his place if we do release Dennis Green. I have made that well known since the bye week. Pete Carroll would be another coach that I wouldn't mind seeing take over since we have the talent here and he would be a Bill Billicheck clone with failure his first stint in the NFL and success in his second true stint. I say that because you really can't count Pete Carroll's stint with the Jets as his first one.

I don't disagree. Although I do feel Pete Kendall still had productive years left, which he proved in NY. He certainly would have been an improvement over what we had. A coach who wants to win will not play a rookie center. That is asking for trouble, and trouble is what denny got.

if denny had shown substantial progress every year, then I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him in place for next season. But he has progressively gotten worse and now at the end of his third year, with his coaching neck on the line, he somehow manages to string together a few wins. It's too little and too late. Where were all these supposedly smart moves back in 2004? Why did he start Josh from day 1 when he had proven nothing in the NFL? Why cut offensive linemen who may not have been all-pro players but were certainly serviceable? Why move Davis to tackle when he played fairly well at guard and obviously is more suited to guard? Why not replace Oliver Ross after last season when he proved he was terrible? Especially when Reggie Wells actually had shown he could play the position. This isn't just hindsight either, as many here and elsewhere questioned these moves as they were happening and it was obvious at the time, there was a very good chance these moves would fail and fail they did. The list goes on and on.

Denny's mistakes far outweigh any small amount of success he's now able to obtain. Especially since these games count for little more than just stats at this point.

[VACardsFan74]

I think you're stating exactly what I am...except you're looking at 3-year periods...and I'm looking at the ENTIRE history of this franchise..the momentum has never been there..in a long-term sense...except for maybe the mid-70's for about 4 years...this franchise is like a WW-II battleship as far what it takes to get this thing going...the consistency of scoring, stopping the scoring, winning...winning road games....winning two road games in row...having a winning home record.... .500 road record or better...making the playoffs...winning the first 2 rounds...getting to NFC championship, etc, etc....and then having the CONFIDENCE to know it can be done all over again with the team you have...it's not just about the coach...and I'm sure you knew that...we're talking about the same things though...I believe...

...and what I am really getting at is that perennial winning teams have a whole lot easier time getting that momentum going when it's a "tradition"...almost a given that the team is in the top half of the league...some teams are viewed that way.

[Saturn5]

...and what I am really getting at is that perennial winning teams have a whole lot easier time getting that momentum going when it's a "tradition"...almost a given that the team is in the top half of the league...some teams are viewed that way.

I don't totally disagree, I think your point is valid to a degree, however there are many losing traditions in sports. The NFL realized this and is now and has been for the last 10-15 years designed themselves to diminish some of the things you're talking about. They have designed and implememented so many opportunities for teams to improve themselves, that it has become really hard for a team to be bad for an extended period of time. Conversely, it's very rare also for one team to dominate for an extended period of time. New England's dynasty is not common at all, not like it was in the sixties and seventies when there were 6-7 of the same teams that stayed at the top year after year. Generally speaking a team has about 1-2 years to remain dominate before they are forced to make wholesale changes just to stay competitive. Players leave much more easily nowdays and when their careers average 5-7 years in length, then it behooves them to grab the best deal no matter what team offers it.

Free Agency
Salary Cap
Rookie salary pool
Coaches having some amount of freedom to move to another team
League assisted stadium deals
Minimum salary amount
weighted scheduling
Emphasizing and promoting college draft
Monitored and regulated injury reports
Practice squads
league advisory intervention
Equalling sharing TV revenues


All of these improvements to how teams do business have a way of levelling the playing field so to speak. If teams are still stuck in the losing tradition (and quite frankly there are not many left at this point) then they are not properly utilizing all the tools that the league has setup for them to improve themselves. The bidwills are bad in spite of what they have at their disposal. It's almost as if they go out of their way to make the team worse. Perhaps there is a hidden incentive for them to do so. Who knows? But at any rate, it is very possible and actually not all that difficult to improve your team. Denny Green was not the wisest choice at head coach. This team needed and still needs a coach that emphasizes fundamentals and is able to teach players how to be professional football players. denny's the type of coach to put proven players in place to be successful. That's what he did at Minnesota and was very successful. But when it comes to nearly an entire team of unproven players, which is what he inherited and actually to a large extent still has, then he is very lost, and that has proven to ultimately be his undoing the last three years.

[VACardsFan74]

Saturn5: "Perhaps there is a hidden incentive for them to do so."

If there is any incentive..then maybe only the Bidwills and and the Lions owners know of this as being a positive thing.

Good post though...I agree with all of what you're saying...

[ItsInTheCards]

denny's the type of coach to put proven players in place to be successful.


that sounds exactly like Steve Mariucci

[flubber15]

I've been very fortunate to watch just about every San Diego game this year and I can't tell you how impressed I've been with the Chargers offense. Yes, they have excellent players, however, the design and structure of their offense is fantastic.

Cameron does an excellent job using a variety of personnel packages. He greatly utilizes two tight ends. He runs unbalanced line. He's very specific about how he uses motion. He's put Philip Rivers in position to make great things happen. To think you could average 33 points per game with a rookie left tackle and a first-year quarterback is hard to fathom.

One thing that speaks to just how well this offensive team is coached is red zone production. They are scoring touchdowns on more than 70 percent of their red zone trips. They have scored TOUCHDOWNS on something like 23 of their last 24 red zone possessions. Think about that for a second.

Another thing about them is they are very creative. They scored their second touchdown on Sunday on a quasi Fumblerooskie. LT has thrown for multiple touchdowns. They've always run the reverse very effectively. They do this while rarely turning over the ball and possessing the football for more than 32 minutes per game.

All in all, just very, very impressive. I wouldn't worry about Cameron's struggles at Indiana. They're almost always brutally bad. It's incredibly difficult for them to win in the Big Ten. I went back and looked at how he did the year they got fired. They were 4-4 in the Big Ten. They won at Michigan State, beat Purdue, beat Northwestern, and won at Wisconsin, 63-32. Randle El was the first-team All-American quarterback.

According to his bio, Frerotte made the Pro Bowl with Cameron as his QB coach. Randle El became a first-team All-American quarterback and broke all kinds of records, Drew Brees went to the Pro Bowl with Cameron as his OC, and now Rivers should be going, although he probably won't this year.

Cameron coached under Bo Schembechler, Marty Schottenheimer, and played basketball for Bob Knight. Those are some **** good tutors.

[jetdoc]

He had a difficult time at Indiana.

I said in another post regarding his IU stint. "...you couldn't bring Jesus and his 12 Disciples into Bloomington and win a football game..."

[DUSK884]

I said in another post regarding his IU stint. "...you couldn't bring Jesus and his 12 Disciples into Bloomington and win a football game..."

Sounds like a Matt Millen quote about Motown if you ask me!

[EastToledoCardinal]

Big Red was right, the guy really sucked at Indiana, I'm glade the Cardinals did not pick him as their coach.