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BullheadCardFan
01-13-2007, 07:14 AM
Money for aides is factor for Cards

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 13, 2007 12:00 AM


When the Cardinals find a replacement for Dennis Green in the coming days, it won't end their coaching search.

The new coach will spend the following weeks hiring a staff, and a couple of factors might make that an interesting endeavor for the Cardinals.

First, team management expects the new coach to interview seven holdovers from Green's staff. It's unknown how much pressure will be exerted upon the head coach to hire those seven.

Second, the Cardinals historically have paid their assistant coaches less than the NFL average. If a new coach is going to attract quality assistants, especially to fill key positions such as offensive and defensive coordinators and offensive line coach, the Cardinals are going to have to pay more.

Each year, the NFL Coaches Association surveys assistants for salary information. Data for 2006 are still being compiled, but in 2005, the Cardinals were ranked somewhere in the bottom third, according to Larry Kennan, the organization's executive director.

"They paid Denny a little more than they paid other guys (former head coaches)," Kennan said, "and I think they upped the assistants some also, but they are not one of the higher-paid groups."

Sources on Green's former staff confirmed that the salaries for position coaches were in line with the rest of the league. And they credit for Green for that.

But Green's coordinators were paid considerably less than the league average. Teams sources said offensive coordinator Keith Rowen and defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast made between $300,000 and $400,000.

The league average for defensive coordinators is $709,000, according to those who responded to the NFLCA's survey. The average for offensive coordinators was $586,000.

It's not uncommon for coordinators to make at least $1 million these days. Gregg Williams, the Redskins' defensive coordinator, signed a three-year deal worth as much as $8 million last year.

When Nick Saban went to Miami as coach two years ago, he spent lavishly on coaches. Hudson Houck, the Dolphins offensive line coach, made nearly $1 million a year, double what his previous employer, the Chargers, was paying him.

"There's a salary cap on players, but there isn't a salary cap on coaches," Saban told reporters at the time.

Former Cardinals coach Dave McGinnis took less salary over the life of his contract so he could pay his assistants more.

Not long ago, it was hard for any NFL assistant coaches to find out what their counterparts in the league were making. Teams guarded the information for obvious reasons, and assistants, who often work 90 to 100 hours a week during the season, had little idea where their salaries ranked.

That began to change about eight years ago, Kennan said, when the NFLCA started its salary surveys. Initially, some assistants resisted, but they gradually saw the value in pooling information.

"Once we started to get everybody's information, salaries went up dramatically," he said. "Once you're armed with information, it's a lot easier to know what the going rate is."

It helped, too, that assistants started hiring agents to negotiate contracts, which increased salaries.


Cards' next move

Hiring a staff is the first key move for a new head coach. Previous Cardinals coaches, including McGinnis and Green, had trouble getting the people they wanted not only because of salary constraints, but also because other teams refused them permission to talk to assistants under contract.

That's the reason Cardinals management cited in retaining seven members of Green's staff. They wanted to give a new head coach a head start in assembling a staff.

"We felt like these guys would certainly fit in our future," Rod Graves, the team's vice president of football operations, said the day Green was fired. "Those coaches are going to be evaluated, along with my input, (by) the new head coach and we'll see ultimately where their status will fall.

"We just didn't think, No. 1, a wholesale turnover of the staff was necessary," he said.

That decision, however, likely has raised questions from head-coaching candidates.

Fair or not, the Cardinals have a reputation for being cheap. They would save money by retaining the assistants, who are under contract for 2007, rather than paying them if they don't find work elsewhere.

But no prospective head coach wants someone else to dictate the makeup of his staff, and candidates have been assured they won't be forced to hire anyone.

"You talk about talent on the field; talent on the coaching staff is just as important," former Packers coach Mike Sherman said when he interviewed with the Cardinals last week. "They want to retain the services of those men to give the new coach the opportunity to interview them. I'm under the understanding that's as far as it goes."

Russ Grimm, a Steelers assistant, reportedly turned down the Bears head coaching job three years ago because he didn't agree with management's position on hiring a staff. When he interviewed with the Cardinals on Tuesday, Grimm said a head coach has to "feel comfortable with his staff."

"I may walk back upstairs, and they say, 'We don't want you to have any say, so get out of here,' and I'm back on the next plane. That's an issue we haven't crossed yet."

Tucson
01-13-2007, 07:46 AM
New stadium, more revenue, same old cheap Bidwills.

ItsInTheCards
01-13-2007, 07:49 AM
Money for aides is factor for Cards

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 13, 2007 12:00 AM


When the Cardinals find a replacement for Dennis Green in the coming days, it won't end their coaching search.

The new coach will spend the following weeks hiring a staff, and a couple of factors might make that an interesting endeavor for the Cardinals.

First, team management expects the new coach to interview seven holdovers from Green's staff. It's unknown how much pressure will be exerted upon the head coach to hire those seven.

Second, the Cardinals historically have paid their assistant coaches less than the NFL average. If a new coach is going to attract quality assistants, especially to fill key positions such as offensive and defensive coordinators and offensive line coach, the Cardinals are going to have to pay more.

Each year, the NFL Coaches Association surveys assistants for salary information. Data for 2006 are still being compiled, but in 2005, the Cardinals were ranked somewhere in the bottom third, according to Larry Kennan, the organization's executive director.

"They paid Denny a little more than they paid other guys (former head coaches)," Kennan said, "and I think they upped the assistants some also, but they are not one of the higher-paid groups."

Sources on Green's former staff confirmed that the salaries for position coaches were in line with the rest of the league. And they credit for Green for that.

But Green's coordinators were paid considerably less than the league average. Teams sources said offensive coordinator Keith Rowen and defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast made between $300,000 and $400,000.

The league average for defensive coordinators is $709,000, according to those who responded to the NFLCA's survey. The average for offensive coordinators was $586,000.

It's not uncommon for coordinators to make at least $1 million these days. Gregg Williams, the Redskins' defensive coordinator, signed a three-year deal worth as much as $8 million last year.

When Nick Saban went to Miami as coach two years ago, he spent lavishly on coaches. Hudson Houck, the Dolphins offensive line coach, made nearly $1 million a year, double what his previous employer, the Chargers, was paying him.

"There's a salary cap on players, but there isn't a salary cap on coaches," Saban told reporters at the time.

Former Cardinals coach Dave McGinnis took less salary over the life of his contract so he could pay his assistants more.

Not long ago, it was hard for any NFL assistant coaches to find out what their counterparts in the league were making. Teams guarded the information for obvious reasons, and assistants, who often work 90 to 100 hours a week during the season, had little idea where their salaries ranked.

That began to change about eight years ago, Kennan said, when the NFLCA started its salary surveys. Initially, some assistants resisted, but they gradually saw the value in pooling information.

"Once we started to get everybody's information, salaries went up dramatically," he said. "Once you're armed with information, it's a lot easier to know what the going rate is."

It helped, too, that assistants started hiring agents to negotiate contracts, which increased salaries.


Cards' next move

Hiring a staff is the first key move for a new head coach. Previous Cardinals coaches, including McGinnis and Green, had trouble getting the people they wanted not only because of salary constraints, but also because other teams refused them permission to talk to assistants under contract.

That's the reason Cardinals management cited in retaining seven members of Green's staff. They wanted to give a new head coach a head start in assembling a staff.

"We felt like these guys would certainly fit in our future," Rod Graves, the team's vice president of football operations, said the day Green was fired. "Those coaches are going to be evaluated, along with my input, (by) the new head coach and we'll see ultimately where their status will fall.

"We just didn't think, No. 1, a wholesale turnover of the staff was necessary," he said.

That decision, however, likely has raised questions from head-coaching candidates.

Fair or not, the Cardinals have a reputation for being cheap. They would save money by retaining the assistants, who are under contract for 2007, rather than paying them if they don't find work elsewhere.

But no prospective head coach wants someone else to dictate the makeup of his staff, and candidates have been assured they won't be forced to hire anyone.

"You talk about talent on the field; talent on the coaching staff is just as important," former Packers coach Mike Sherman said when he interviewed with the Cardinals last week. "They want to retain the services of those men to give the new coach the opportunity to interview them. I'm under the understanding that's as far as it goes."

Russ Grimm, a Steelers assistant, reportedly turned down the Bears head coaching job three years ago because he didn't agree with management's position on hiring a staff. When he interviewed with the Cardinals on Tuesday, Grimm said a head coach has to "feel comfortable with his staff."

"I may walk back upstairs, and they say, 'We don't want you to have any say, so get out of here,' and I'm back on the next plane. That's an issue we haven't crossed yet."


I'm wondering if a candidate said "yeah, I'll keep some of them, but I want the position coaches. I want Kruczek and Clancy gone, I want my own coordinators." would they be ok if they kept everybody but those 2, or are they being dumb and forcing them to keep Clancy regardless.....man, what a cluster f.....

Hollywood
01-13-2007, 07:52 AM
I'm wondering if a candidate said "yeah, I'll keep some of them, but I want the position coaches. I want Kruczek and Clancy gone, I want my own coordinators." would they be ok if they kept everybody but those 2, or are they being dumb and forcing them to keep Clancy regardless.....man, what a cluster f.....


I think these coaches were retained because the team thinks they are quality coaches and didn't want to let them hit the market IN CASE the next head coach wanted to keep them on staff. If not then adios amigos.

ItsInTheCards
01-13-2007, 07:58 AM
I think these coaches were retained because the team thinks they are quality coaches and didn't want to let them hit the market IN CASE the next head coach wanted to keep them on staff. If not then adios amigos.

oh, I realize that they wanted them to keep them just in case, but there are so many conflicting reports as to what they really want to do with them

makes your head spin

Red Valley
01-13-2007, 07:59 AM
I don't think that the coach hired in the next few days is going to completely overhaul the assistants here. You don't need to cause anymore disarray than what already exists.

Hollywood
01-13-2007, 08:01 AM
oh, I realize that they wanted them to keep them just in case, but there are so many conflicting reports as to what they really want to do with them

makes your head spin


Well yeah, and the fact that NONE of us really knows what is going on behind closed doors just makes it funny. EVERYONE is guessing. I'm sure that there are a few of the reporters that really do have the "inside" scoop, but they are getting lost in a sea of garbage.

Crazy-Canuck
01-13-2007, 08:24 AM
New stadium, more revenue, same old cheap Bidwills.

a) the new revenues started as of this last season
b) salaries for assistants went up under Green

So, why wouldn't they go up, if needed under the new coach?

The article says that the Card salaries for assistants is the lower third of league, so I wonder who the other 9 money grubbers are, and whether they've all had losing season after season.

We certainly know, that big spender Dan Snyder, who pays top dollar for his staff hasn't gotten much of a return on his investment.

Tucson
01-13-2007, 08:33 AM
a) the new revenues started as of this last season
b) salaries for assistants went up under Green

So, why wouldn't they go up, if needed under the new coach?

The article says that the Card salaries for assistants is the lower third of league, so I wonder who the other 9 money grubbers are, and whether they've all had losing season after season.

We certainly know, that big spender Dan Snyder, who pays top dollar for his staff hasn't gotten much of a return on his investment.

We also know the Cards have s*cked virtually the entire time they've been owned by the Bidwills.

BullheadCardFan
01-13-2007, 08:44 AM
Arizona

Updated at 4:15 p.m. EST, Jan. 12, 2007

So who’s the clubhouse leader to become the Cardinals’ new head coach? If we were forced to pick one, we would probably go with Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who interviewed with the team Jan. 8. One point the Cardinals have made crystal clear is the need for the new head coach to be able to bring out the best in QB Matt Leinart, the undisputed face of the franchise. Chow would appear to be a perfect choice, having already worked closely with Leinart when he was the offensive coordinator at USC. Bears defensive coordinator Ron Rivera was initially considered one of the top two candidates, but as the weekend approached, it appeared as though he was moving down the list because the Bidwills seemed to want a more offensive-minded guy. That said, there's reason to believe that Rivera is the top choice of Cardinals V.P. of football operations Rod Graves, who formerly worked for the Bears and has a solid relationship with Rivera.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm?mode=nfcwest

Big Red
01-13-2007, 08:46 AM
I noticed that Pittsburgh kept their assistants after Cowher left. I guess the difference is reputation. The Cards get second-guessed for everything they do and a series of unfounded rumors beget angst/disgust/venting. It seems to me the Cardinals are handling the process correctly.

Somers is right to raise the assistant issue, but it seems the only variance from the norm is OC and DC. We'll soon C if this adjustment--like many others--will be made. As an aside, it's completely in character for Somers to stress something negative instead of pointing out the organization and intelligence that is driving the selection process.

crdnl85
01-13-2007, 09:06 AM
That article appears to contradict itself at times.That or i didn't fully understand what was said.
I only have this to say,we fans have given the Cardinals front office time to get in shape financially to be able to afford the best coaching staff they can get.I expect nothing less than that.If some of the assistants are good enough to keep,i would hope that the new HC would see the advantage of that,after he interviews them.In my opinion the front office should say"they are there if you want them"and then get out of his way.The Cardinals organization needs to show once and for all that they can,and will,put a football team on the field that all of Arizona,as well as their out of state fans can be proud of.It all starts with hiring the best HC availale.:Cards logo: :Cards logo: :Cards logo:

Redheart
01-13-2007, 09:12 AM
New stadium, more revenue, same old cheap Bidwills.

You read all that information and came away with that?

Same old idiot Tucson.

Tucson
01-13-2007, 09:16 AM
I only have this to say, we fans have given the Cardinals front office time to get in shape financially to be able to afford the best coaching staff they can get. I expect nothing less than that.

The Cardinals organization needs to show once and for all that they can,and will,put a football team on the field that all of Arizona,as well as their out of state fans can be proud of.It all starts with hiring the best HC availale.:Cards logo: :Cards logo: :Cards logo:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tucson
01-13-2007, 09:17 AM
You read all that information and came away with that?

Same old idiot Tucson.

If you didn't, you might want to reread it.

Tangodnzr
01-13-2007, 09:26 AM
Well, I'll say one thing for these guys.

They just continue to throw crap up against to wall to see if any of it sticks.

:football:

Big Red
01-13-2007, 09:35 AM
I strongly agree with Redheart's interpretation.

Crazy-Canuck
01-13-2007, 09:38 AM
I strongly agree with Redheart's interpretation.

Ditto!

Tangodnzr
01-13-2007, 09:40 AM
oh, I realize that they wanted them to keep them just in case, but there are so many conflicting reports as to what they really want to do with them

makes your head spin

And if you are dumb enough to believe all of them, why blame someone else for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheart
You read all that information and came away with that?
Same old idiot Tucson.

Originally Posted by Tucson
If you didn't, you might want to reread it.

I also gotta agree with you on this Redheart.

ItsInTheCards
01-13-2007, 10:00 AM
Well, I'll say one thing for these guys.

They just continue to throw crap up against to wall to see if any of it sticks.

:football:

just so you know, this (PFW) is a completely different thing than PFT...they are not the same...pro football weekly has a magazine

FightOnCards!
01-13-2007, 10:14 AM
just so you know, this (PFW) is a completely different thing than PFT...they are not the same...pro football weekly has a magazine

That is a great site - while there I read their past posts on Arizona - they were right on the money with a lot of their points, almost like they read this board.

Good post!

Sndvl1999
01-13-2007, 12:05 PM
I noticed that Pittsburgh kept their assistants after Cowher left. I guess the difference is reputation. The Cards get second-guessed for everything they do and a series of unfounded rumors beget angst/disgust/venting. It seems to me the Cardinals are handling the process correctly.

Somers is right to raise the assistant issue, but it seems the only variance from the norm is OC and DC. We'll soon C if this adjustment--like many others--will be made. As an aside, it's completely in character for Somers to stress something negative instead of pointing out the organization and intelligence that is driving the selection process.

Please stop using logic and reason on this board. It confuses a lot of posters who are emotional and are unaware of how the NFL works. Also for those of you that spent Thursday bashing Mike Sherman... I have one question...Why would the Steelers (a great organization) bring in this "retred", "loser", "coat tail rider" in for an interview if he was all of the things that a lot of you misinformed fans think he is?

Tangodnzr
01-13-2007, 12:31 PM
just so you know, this (PFW) is a completely different thing than PFT...they are not the same...pro football weekly has a magazine
:oops:
OK. My bad. I stand corrected.

Man Oh Man
01-13-2007, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheart
You read all that information and came away with that?

Same old idiot Tucson.

If you didn't, you might want to reread it.


You just can't fix stupid Tango. There is a reason Tuscon is south of PHX. His comments are better left south of Casa Grande