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Cardsfan2000
01-15-2007, 01:02 PM
This is an excellent essay that I have had saved on my computer for several years. The guy who wrote it used to have a website where a number of equally impressive essays were archived. The facts on this particular one are really irrefutable; like it or not, Jesus is/was leftish, and I challenge any conservative to find any New Testament texts that refute this.

Myth: The Bible is conservative.

Fact: Using the Bible to support any political ideology is highly problematic.



Summary

The New Testament is a liberal's paradise; almost every principle espoused in it is one that liberals -- not conservatives -- espouse today. (The only exceptions are its pronouncements on divorce, sexuality and slavery.) The Old Testament, however, is a conservative haven, filled with pronouncements favoring war, slavery, theocracy, monarchy, wealth accumulation, capital punishment, extreme female submission and more. Interestingly, however, the Old Testament is sexually permissive. Attempting to use the Bible to justify their modern beliefs therefore poses significant challenges to Christian conservatives.



Argument

Does the Bible really espouse conservative philosophies?

Let us briefly run through the politics of the religious right, just so the comparison will be fresh in our memory. Christian conservatives believe firmly in God, country and family. Self-sufficiency and rugged individualism are highly esteemed qualities; people should pull themselves up their own bootstraps. Becoming rich is a keen goal and almost universally admired. Taxes are seen as a curse. Social programs for the poor are a waste of tax-payers' money, and the sort of people on those programs (mostly blacks) are lazy and given to crime. As for criminals, they should feel the full force of the law. And that goes for international criminals as well... a nation should deal with its enemies from a position of strength, and should never be afraid to let them feel the full force of its military might.

Were these the politics of Jesus? Let's take a look:

On defense: Jesus said "Love your enemies" and "Blessed are the peacemakers." "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:44; 5:9; 5:39.)

On social programs: "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." (Matthew 19:21.)

On rugged individualism and the pursuit of self-interest: "Love your neighbor as yourself." "So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you." (Matthew 22:39; 7:12.)

On financial success: "Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." "You cannot serve both God and Money." (Matthew 19:23; 6:24.)

On the philosophy that "greed is good": "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." (Luke 12:15.)

On paying taxes: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." (Matthew 22:22.)

On crime and punishment: "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (John 8:7; Matthew 7:1,2.)

On climbing the social ladder: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'" (Matthew 11:19.)

On money-hungry televangelists: "In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables." (John 2:14,15.)

On the free lunch: "Taking the five loaves and two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves… The number of those who ate was about five thousand men…" (Matthew 14:19,21.)

On the perks and privileges of power: "After that, [Jesus] poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him." (John 13:5.)

On moral absolutes: "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?" "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:11; Mark 2:27.)

On family: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple." Also: "'Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?' Pointing to his disciples, he said, 'Here are my mother and my brothers.'" (Luke 14:26; Matthew 12:48,49.)

On race relations: In the parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus praised the morality of a hated foreigner over his own countrymen. (Luke 10:30-37.)

On the superiority of one's native country: "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.'" (Matthew 10:5,6.)

On letting others pull themselves up by their own bootstraps: "But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous." (Luke 14:13,14.)

Modern Christian conservatives may be horrified, but there is no getting around the fact: Jesus was not just a liberal, but a radical liberal! In fact, except for one pronouncement on divorce, there is not one text in all four Gospels which even remotely supports or resembles the conservative's most cherished beliefs. It is a standing challenge to the religious right to find a list of Gospel texts, as I have provided here, which advocates the conservative's philosophies. Not one Christian can give a single example, because these texts do not exist.

And if anyone remains unconvinced about the deep liberal slant of Jesus and the early Christian Church, a review of their economic policies should remove all doubt forever. The early Christian Church actually serves as history's second example of pure communism! (The first was the Essenes, who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.) In Paul's Christian Church, the fruits of everyone's labor went into a collective pool, which was then divided evenly among everyone in the group. The following passages from Acts of the Apostles are remarkable in this description:
"All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need." (Acts 2:44-45).

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had… There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need." (Acts 4:32,34,35)
The New Testament itself is filled with countless calls for a redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor. As for the rich, they are clearly portrayed as wicked; both Jesus and his apostles condemned them in the harshest terms possible:
"But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry." (Luke 6:24,25)

"Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Luke 18:25)

"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evil." (1 Timothy 6:9,10)

"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share." (1 Timothy 6:17,18)

"Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who loved him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?" (James 2:5-7)

"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourself in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you." (James 5:1-6)
Giving to the poor was not just an act of kindness, it was a Christian duty, and Paul ended his letters with a reminder to send money to the poor in Jerusalem. It was this identification with the poor that led them to attack usury, or the loaning of money for interest, in the bitterest terms, for this was seen as exploitation of the poor. In the end, one cannot read the New Testament and escape the conclusion that the Early Christian Church condemned inequality of wealth as one of the greatest of human sins.

These observations are a disaster for conservatives who try to use the Bible as moral authority for their political opinions. I have had only a few Christians even try to defend them. I present you with the few counter-arguments I have received:

Jesus came across as radical because he was affecting radical change. True, but you can agree with this observation completely and still not lose sight of the fact that the changes Jesus called for are quite liberal by today's standards.

Jesus was simply representing the positive side of God's message, namely, his love, mercy and forgiveness; it was left to the apostles to describe God's judgment and wrath against sinners. But even in the later books of the New Testament, you cannot find support for such conservative beliefs as a strong national defense, the superiority of one's own people, tax-cuts for the rich, the pursuit of wealth, or the abolition of welfare programs for the poor. These ideas are still strongly condemned. But, to be truthful, there are two issues which the apostles later developed in the New Testament which could be construed as conservative. The first is a profound anti-sexual theme which was not common among Israel (the Jews were quite liberal about sex, as we shall see below); but this anti-sexual bias ran deep throughout the Greek world of Paul's time, where Christianity was to thrive. The second was the apostles' acceptance of slavery. I somehow doubt Christians will be eager to use this latter example.

Times were different in Jesus day; today we have a different economic and social system. With this argument, conservatives abandon their source of authority. To say that Jesus represented his own time is to say that his words do not matter any more. It means that conservatives cannot use the Bible as the moral authority for their modern viewpoints. They may admit that their political views are based on their own logic and reason, but they must stop there, and cease to claim that these views come from the New Testament, because they do not.

The Old Testament is filled with philosophies that conservatives agree with today. This is, in fact, the most common conservative defense. From the condemnation of homosexuals to the praise of wealth and national defense, the Old Testament is indeed a conservative's paradise. And Jesus himself said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17.) But this argument fails on a single point. If the Old Testament were still valid, we would still be obeying it. That is, Christians would still be bringing doves into the temple for slaughter upon the altar. We would still be sinning for planting two different crops in the same field, or wearing two different fabrics at once. Even the least educated Christian knows that a profound difference occurred at the cross, and that a different set of rules came into play. Those rules can be found in the New Testament, and they are overwhelmingly liberal.

Even so, falling back on the Old Testament often backfires for Christian Conservatives. The problem is that the Old Testament goes too far to the right. The Old Testament was not only undemocratic, it featured a monarchy. (1 Samuel 8.) Social inequality not only existed, but was embodied in slavery. In fact, it was legal to beat slaves so severely that they could not get up for a day or two. (Exodus 21:21.) Children were not only expected to respect their parents; their parents could legally kill them if they didn't. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21.) Women not only had a submissive and inferior status to men, they were considered chattel. (Genesis 3:16, Exodus 21:7-11, Numbers 30.) God not only ordered Israel to initiate wars of aggression, but ordered Israel to kill all captive men and non-virgin women, and to bring the virgin women into sexual slavery. (Deuteronomy 7:1,2, Numbers 31.) God even ordered the suckling infants of the enemy to be massacred. (1 Samuel 15:3.)

Interestingly, there is one area of the Old Testament that runs diametrically opposed to the conservative's most cherished values: sexuality. Of course, many conservatives frequently cite the Old Testament laws against incest, homosexuality and ********** (Leviticus 18:6,22,23). But in almost all other sexual matters, the Old Testament is really quite permissive. There were no laws prohibiting pre-marital and non-marital sex, and only a few stipulations to this liberty were explicitly stated. One was that if a man seduces a virgin, he must pay a bride-price and marry her. (Exodus 22:16.) However, the law says nothing about non-virgins, including divorced or widowed women. Also, a wife found guilty of adultery could be stoned to death along with her lover. (Deuteronomy 22:22.) However, no law prevented a married man from carrying on with as many affairs as he pleased, as long as they were not with other men's wives. For a man, divorce was both legal and easy to obtain, if for no other reason that she displeased him. (Deuteronomy 24:1-4.) Prostitution was illegal for Jewish women, but it was permitted for foreigners. (Deuteronomy 23:17.) However, many Jewish women became prostitutes as well. The practice was widely tolerated by the authorities, and considering how many scriptural warnings were voiced against harlots, it is clear they did a thriving business.

If Christian conservatives find all this alarming, it gets worse. Polygamy was not only allowed, but King Solomon's 700 wives and 300 concubines were recorded as a matter of national pride. (1 Kings 11:3.) Concubines served the role of secondary wives; they were often, but not necessarily, purchased servants. As for purchased female servants, male masters were allowed to have sex with them (Exodus 21:7-11), a practice which Christians defend by claiming that the rights of these slaves were "well-regulated." (!) If a male soldier found a female captive to be attractive, he could force marriage, and therefore sexual relations, on her. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14.) In modern society, this is called ****.

Except for a distinct misogyny and homophobia, the ancient Jews were generally free of sexual repression. Like most cultures and religions of the world, they celebrated heterosexual pleasure as a gift from God. This positive view is reflected in Song of Songs, an erotic poem that even becomes sexually explicit:
"Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my sister, my darling…' I have taken off my robe -- must I put it on again?… My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him. I arose to open for my lover, and my hands dripped with myrrh, my fingers with flowing myrrh, on the handles of the lock, I opened for my lover…" (Song of Songs 5:2-6)
The sexual double entendre here is obvious, and has been the source of embarrassment and controversy to Christians for almost 2,000 years. The standard disclaimer is that the author was really describing God's relationship to his people, a view that even the ancient rabbinic scholars taught. But this is still an embarrassment to the sexually repressed philosophies of Christian conservatives, given the overtly sexual nature of the poem. What is more likely is that the author was engaging in the sort of double entendre that often occurred in ancient Jewish writings. Many of their stories and parables having second meanings, just as many of their character's names are actually puns in Hebrew. It seems that the author of the above poem was engaging in this tradition: writing erotica under the guise of religious metaphor.

Rabbinical scholars also taught that both men and women had a right to receive sexual pleasure in marriage.

Jesus did not seem bent on fundamentally reforming Jewish law and culture on sex and marriage. His only statement on the subject was that it was wrong for a man to divorce his wife for any reason, not just adultery. (Matthew 5:31,32, Luke 16:18). It is easy to see the Jewish context in which Jesus was arguing, and that he was only concerned about refining the existing law, not revolutionizing it. (However, Jesus also mentions in Mark 10:12 that a woman cannot divorce her husband and marry another man without committing adultery. Controversy surrounds the point of whether the woman in this case is the initiator of divorce, or merely has been divorced.)

So where did the sexual repression of the New Testament come from? It first surfaces in the writings of Paul, and worsens with the other apostles. That is because these writers generally come from the Greek world, where the anti-sexual philosophies of Greek Stoicism were dominant. Paul was born and raised in Tarsus, an important Greek trading port which was also the birthplace of two famous Stoic philosophers and the site of several excellent Greek schools. Christianity failed to take root in Israel, but it flourished in the Greco-Roman empire. As this new religion swept through that region, it absorbed the anti-sexual tenets of Greek philosophy and then spread them wherever the Christian empire spread, even to the shores of America. Those familiar with this history know that it is horrific; the Church Father Origen, for example, castrated himself in his fear that sexual temptation would deprive him of the kingdom of heaven. And women -- the purveyors of sexual evil -- were so vilified under Christian doctrine that the Inquisition tortured and murdered them for two centuries as "witches". For these reasons, European and American history is filled with a sexual repression and guilt that is unmatched anywhere in the world.

In summary, both the Old and New Testaments offer profound challenges to modern Christian conservatives who wish to quote the Bible as the basis of their political beliefs.

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Religion should be seperate from state according to many.......so why does this concern any of us?

I also would like to challenge you on your definition of a liberal and conservative........most of us that consider ourselves conservative, do so in the thought that we want to uphold to constitution, and interpret it literally.

Being liberal or conservative doesn't hold you to a certain set of ideals.......for a liberal communist is FAR BETTER than a conservative communist.

But even in the later books of the New Testament, you cannot find support for such conservative beliefs as a strong national defense, the superiority of one's own people, tax-cuts for the rich, the pursuit of wealth, or the abolition of welfare programs for the poor.

Tax-Cuts for the rich??? What with the top 5%....or "rich" already paying over 57% of the nations taxes opposed to earning only 33% of the income???


I find nearly half of the claims against conservatives to not even remotely apply........."condemning homosexuals" or "greed is good".......???

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 01:56 PM
And Jesus himself said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17.)

This is the MOST telling of all the passages........Jesus is fulfilling the Old Testament's prophecy of his coming to earth. Nothing more, nothing less.

He comes to provide an alternate way to Heaven, so that we no longer need to follow the Old Testament's rituals......he does not condemn or abolish the morality of the Old Testament.

Cardsfan2000
01-15-2007, 02:17 PM
This is the MOST telling of all the passages........Jesus is fulfilling the Old Testament's prophecy of his coming to earth. Nothing more, nothing less.

He comes to provide an alternate way to Heaven, so that we no longer need to follow the Old Testament's rituals......he does not condemn or abolish the morality of the Old Testament.

He fulfills the prophecy of a Messiah, he contradicts nearly all of the tyrannical teachings of the Old Testament, however. Moreover, if the teachings of the Old Testament were the ideal then obedience to such dogma would've resulted in peace and tranquility; a Messiah wouldn't even be necessary.

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 03:05 PM
1) You shall have no other Gods before me.

2) You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3) You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5) Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

6) You shall not murder.

7) You shall not commit adultery.

8) You shall not steal.

9)You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10) You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."


Oh the humanity......look how tyrannical the Old testament's laws are.......10 commandments.

In what ways exactly does he contradict the Old Testament??

- Have multiple God's
- Commit Murder
- Sleep Around outside of wedlock
- Steal your neighbor's possessions

I don't think so.......An eye for an eye is the just, and fair way the government should be run. And in my knowledge, that is the only contradiction as seen by most.......and even then he speaks on a personal level, not governmental.

SULLY
01-15-2007, 03:14 PM
you shouldnt live your life by everything the bible tells you. if your child gets caught stealing cut off his hand? if he lies cut off his tounge? come on now. its a book written by people no better than me and you. there are still books that "didnt make the cut" come on who decided whose teachings would go where?

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 03:22 PM
if your child gets caught stealing cut off his hand?

No........but you should severely mangle it.......LOL

SULLY
01-15-2007, 03:27 PM
mangle as in put it into a spinning bike tire?

:coach:<----i love that

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 03:28 PM
mangle as in put it into a spinning bike tire?

:coach:<----i love that

LOL.....exactly

Billy Baroo
01-15-2007, 04:28 PM
I also would like to challenge you on your definition of a liberal and conservative.......Being liberal or conservative doesn't hold you to a certain set of ideals

One of the saddest things about our society is the way some people try to divide everyone into just two ideologies; conservative and liberal. Fact is, most people are neutral. Showcasing extremist beliefs is what gets the ratings on TV though. I don't think you can pigeonhole Jesus into just one ideology or the other.
That was kind of interesting to read, but I can't put much merit into something where each of the arguments are based on just one verse from the Bible. Scripture can easily be misunderstood and taken out of context that way.

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 05:40 PM
One of the saddest things about our society is the way some people try to divide everyone into just two ideologies; conservative and liberal. Fact is, most people are neutral. Showcasing extremist beliefs is what gets the ratings on TV though. I don't think you can pigeonhole Jesus into just one ideology or the other.
That was kind of interesting to read, but I can't put much merit into something where each of the arguments are based on just one verse from the Bible. Scripture can easily be misunderstood and taken out of context that way.

I agree......you can take almost any work and manipulate/interpret it to fit your agenda.

Cardsfan2000
01-15-2007, 05:54 PM
I agree......you can take almost any work and manipulate/interpret it to fit your agenda.

And the GOP doesn't do this...? My god, W wouldn't even be president had he not politicized God.

arizona_cards_11
01-15-2007, 06:17 PM
And the GOP doesn't do this...? My god, W wouldn't even be president had he not politicized God.

I'm not saying either side is innocent.......I just saying that it is human nature to justify actions and interpret passages to the benefit of your cause.

Billy Baroo
01-15-2007, 11:13 PM
And the GOP doesn't do this...? My god, W wouldn't even be president had he not politicized God.

W and his boy Rove took a lot of people for a ride. A lot of intelligent people too. After 9/11, we were all ripe for the pickin'. It took about six years for them all to catch on. These last hanger ons are just with Bush because they don't have anywhere else to go.
We had the whole world behind us after 9/11 and most of that support is gone now. We kicked some butt in Afghanistan and should have stuck with that stragedy of hitting terrorist camps. I think Saadam had to go, but there were better ways of doing that. Bush started thinking he was on a mission from God, him and Rove were like the Blues Brothers.
After looking at that essay again, I was wondering if the writer really was making a case for a liberal Jesus or if he was just showing how scripture verses could be manipulated to suit a political or social agenda. He gave a lot of good examples of how to isolate a verse and take both liberal and conservative values from the Bible.

SeeingRed
01-16-2007, 03:42 PM
The fact that CF2k even feels the need to place Jesus in to one ideal or another makes me upset. It's sad that the Democrats try and use Him and the Bible for personal gain and not for sprituality.

Avondale_Larry
01-16-2007, 06:53 PM
The fact that CF2k even feels the need to place Jesus in to one ideal or another makes me upset. It's sad that the Democrats try and use Him and the Bible for personal gain and not for sprituality.

It's not "the democrats" it's just one guy on this board and one guy who wrote the original article.

Having said that, I tend to agree with the sentiment. Republicans are no more religious than Democrats, but they certainly wear their religion on their sleeves these days.

To be fair, it was the Democrats doing exactly the same thing 30-40 years ago.

If you bring faith into the argument, then it's simply fair game for those to poke holes in that very argument.

Many (note I didn't say all or most) Republicans are very concerned with the accumulation of wealth. Many of these same people consider themselves Christlike.

You can't have it both ways. Something about the eye of a needle and a camel, I believe.

SeeingRed
01-17-2007, 12:51 AM
It's not "the democrats" it's just one guy on this board and one guy who wrote the original article.

Having said that, I tend to agree with the sentiment. Republicans are no more religious than Democrats, but they certainly wear their religion on their sleeves these days.

To be fair, it was the Democrats doing exactly the same thing 30-40 years ago.

If you bring faith into the argument, then it's simply fair game for those to poke holes in that very argument.

Many (note I didn't say all or most) Republicans are very concerned with the accumulation of wealth. Many of these same people consider themselves Christlike.

You can't have it both ways. Something about the eye of a needle and a camel, I believe.

You're right. I shouldn't have said "Democrats" as to stereotype the whole party. I should have said "some Democrats". My mistake. As a Christian, it just makes me upset that people use Christianity (and religion in general) for personal and/or political gain. That isn't right. Me being Republican has nothing to do with me being Christian and I would never bring that in to any political or ideological arguement. For me, religion has no place in politics (or in public schools).

Saturn5
01-17-2007, 07:48 AM
Myth: The Bible is conservative.


In summary, both the Old and New Testaments offer profound challenges to modern Christian conservatives who wish to quote the Bible as the basis of their political beliefs.

Good read. Thanks CF2k.

I've always believed that Christ's teachings often contradicted conservative ideology.

SeeingRed
01-17-2007, 11:03 AM
Good read. Thanks CF2k.

I've always believed that Christ's teachings often contradicted conservative ideology.

You're another one. Christ was not a Republican or a Democrat...

Cardsfan2000
01-17-2007, 02:33 PM
You're another one. Christ was not a Republican or a Democrat...

That was the whole point of the essay.... The thread title was more rhetorical than anything else.

SeeingRed
01-18-2007, 06:48 AM
That was the whole point of the essay.... The thread title was more rhetorical than anything else.

You have ulterior motives posting crap like this.

Saturn5
01-18-2007, 09:50 AM
You're another one. Christ was not a Republican or a Democrat...

never said he was.