'Black' Coaches in Super Bowl

[jfig]

While I congratulate, both Lovie and Tony for reaching the SuperBowl as the first black coaches in history, I really don't care what color these guys are. All the reports I've been watching on tv after these games keep talking about this subject.

I can care less if they are orange, purple or rainbow colored. I just congratulate them for being 'great' coaches and getting their respective teams to the big dance! I wish the media wouldn't make this the biggest topic, which I feel it will be for the next two weeks.

Being hispanic/latino/mexican (whatever we're called this week), I didn't push for Rivera at all, just because he's a minority. I pushed for whoever would get our Cardinals to the promise land at the end of the year. Now if Whisenhunt can get us a couple of games in Jan/Feb, then he can color himself any color he wants. Around these parts, he would basically walk on water WHEN he pulls that off.

[JayGee]

dude, believe me, it's huge. like jackie robinson breaking the color barrier for MLB. tiger winning the masters. doug williams winning the superbowl as a QB. it lets the world know that if given the opportunity, blacks can be successful in sports endeavors that were previously only achieved by white men.

i look forward to the day that something like this is non-newsworthy, but that's not the reality of the type of world that we live in. both lovie and tony realize the magnitude of what they represent and mentioned as much in their post-game pressers. their first priority is winning for their respective cities and organizations but they know that this achievement will pave the way for further opportunities for blacks in leadership positions in sports.

to ignore this as no big deal is to just act like nobody notices what's going on.

[jfig]

i'm not saying its not a big deal. but i just want them to be respected for their coaching abilities first. i totally respect the fact of all the barriers that have been broken within the last 40-50 years, but i'm just looking forward to the day when those lines aren't a factor.

[Tucson]

dude, believe me, it's huge. like jackie robinson breaking the color barrier for MLB. tiger winning the masters. doug williams winning the superbowl as a QB. it lets the world know that if given the opportunity, blacks can be successful in sports endeavors that were previously only achieved by white men.

i look forward to the day that something like this is non-newsworthy, but that's not the reality of the type of world that we live in. both lovie and tony realize the magnitude of what they represent and mentioned as much in their post-game pressers. their first priority is winning for their respective cities and organizations but they know that this achievement will pave the way for further opportunities for blacks in leadership positions in sports.

to ignore this as no big deal is to just act like nobody notices what's going on.

The world should have already known that. It's a lot harder to become CEO of American Express, Alliant Energy, Time Warner, Wachovia, Merrill Lynch, or Symantec than it is to win a Super Bowl. Of course, it's also true that the average American has no idea that the CEOs of those companies (and others) are African American.

[NightHawk11and81]

To be honest, this didn't dawn on me until a few days ago. You'd think that there would have been a black coach to do it, but I guess there's been too many Denny Greens, Art Shells, and Ray Rhodeses and too few Tony Dungys, Lovie Smiths, and Marvin Lewises.

[Man Oh Man]

And they can join another minority who won the SB over 23 years ago. Tom Flores. This is about who was best.....well....if the refs were consistent, it would have been. But hey, the Bears have been lucky all year. Not because Lovie is black.
Ironic the zebras gave the Bears the game in the first half huh? LOL
Talk about equal opportunity officiating. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Oh well, we're next. At least until we play the popular teams. Then it's "let's see if the Cards are good enough to overcome our stupidity", as heard and witnessed by all Card fans every year, every game.:oops: did I just write that?

[Tangodnzr]

And they can join another minority who won the SB over 23 years ago. Tom Flores. This is about who was best.....well....if the refs were consistent, it would have been. But hey, the Bears have been lucky all year. Not because Lovie is black.
Ironic the zebras gave the Bears the game in the first half huh? LOL
Talk about equal opportunity officiating. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Oh well, we're next. At least until we play the popular teams. Then it's "let's see if the Cards are good enough to overcome our stupidity", as heard and witnessed by all Card fans every year, every game.:oops: did I just write that?


All I can say is "man oh man" if I were Quan and I saw that pic you created, I'd come looking for your skinny backside immediately....and it wouldn't be to congratulate you on your creativity.
You are even a bad, bad Santa.

:poke: :crash: :boxing: :smiley_abxe: :wavewhiteflag: :bounce: :scared: :sick:

[NightHawk11and81]

And they can join another minority who won the SB over 23 years ago. Tom Flores. This is about who was best.....well....if the refs were consistent, it would have been. But hey, the Bears have been lucky all year. Not because Lovie is black.
Ironic the zebras gave the Bears the game in the first half huh? LOL
Talk about equal opportunity officiating. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Oh well, we're next. At least until we play the popular teams. Then it's "let's see if the Cards are good enough to overcome our stupidity", as heard and witnessed by all Card fans every year, every game.:oops: did I just write that?

Yeah, a 25-point bombing had a lot to do with the refs. Dream on.

[reeder15]

Seriously get over the Black stuff. We need to get pass this subject. Are these coaches trying to convince everyone that Black people are good coaches too? Ok you're a good coach, but that doesn't mean we should automatically open the flood gates and make every coach black. Hire the right man for the job and that is that. There are some bad black coaches as well (ex. Dennis Green, Art Shell, etc...)

[sharkman]

:topic: :pointup:

[native az]

To be honest, this didn't dawn on me until a few days ago. You'd think that there would have been a black coach to do it, but I guess there's been too many Denny Greens, Art Shells, and Ray Rhodeses and too few Tony Dungys, Lovie Smiths, and Marvin Lewises.

Or to many Ericksons, Wieches, and Martys that got more chances then they ever deserved.

[toonman6684]

Seriously get over the Black stuff. We need to get pass this subject. Are these coaches trying to convince everyone that Black people are good coaches too? Ok you're a good coach, but that doesn't mean we should automatically open the flood gates and make every coach black. Hire the right man for the job and that is that. There are some bad black coaches as well (ex. Dennis Green, Art Shell, etc...)

And there have been a heck of a lot of bad "white" coaches!Get the point?! We shouldn't open the flood gates and make every coach black but it's ok to open the flood gates for a white coach?!Yeah i know that's not what you said but that's been pretty much the way it's been.See, this is why it's a "big" deal in this country because of comments like "We shouldn't open the flood gates and make every coach black" knowing the history of this country.

[BullheadCardFan]

Congrats to both Lovie and Tony ...

[BullheadCardFan]

Smith, Dungy will make this a classy Super Bowl

By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

CHICAGO -- On the Friday evening before the start of the AFC playoffs, Bears coach Lovie Smith had dinner in Indianapolis with his close friends, Tony Dungy and Herman Edwards, before the two squared off for their first-round playoff game between the Colts and Chiefs.

His Bears in a bye week, Smith sensed history. The three African-American coaches, devoted Christians and family men, were striving for the Super Bowl. Smith and Edwards learned NFL coaching from Dungy, their mentor when they worked for him with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. It was a special moment.

Super Bowl XLI will be even more special. Dungy's Colts, who beat the Patriots 38-34 in the AFC Championship Game on Sunday, will meet Lovie's Bears. The NFL has been waiting 41 years for the first African-American head coach to patrol the sidelines at a Super Bowl. Now there will be two, and one will be the winner. Actually, the nation will be the winner in this one.

"You always talk about it,'' Dungy said of the chance to be the first African-American head coach in the Super Bowl. "When [Smith] took the job in Chicago, I said, 'I'm happy you are going to the NFC and maybe we can play against each other.' When we had dinner three weeks ago, he and I and Herm were still in it. We talked about maybe two of us will play against each other. You hope it happens. It's going to be great going against them. They are a great team.''

Hopefully, Edwards, the Chiefs' head coach, will make it to Miami. How can he miss it? This is history.

"We had a chance to visit for about two hours,'' Dungy said of the family dinner with Smith and Edwards before the playoffs. "We talked about how we really got started in 1996 in Tampa. Some things don't change, the things that Lovie, Herm and I believe in. That's the exciting thing for me. I'm so happy Lovie got there because he does things the right way. He's going to get there with a lot of class, no profanity, no intimidation, just helping his guys play the best that they can. That's the way I try to do it."

Super Bowl XLI will be all about class. Peyton Manning finally made it to his first Super Bowl after nine years. Manning's Colts are a seven-point favorite in a game that might be considered the biggest quarterback mismatch in a long time. Manning is the game's top quarterback. The Bears' Rex Grossman always seems to be a pass away from being benched in favor of Brian Griese.

This is the Super Bowl matchup that has defied the odds. The favorite could be the first Super Bowl winner since 1983 that didn't finish in the top 10 in scoring defense. Toward the end of the season, the Colts and Bears, both of whom have undersized Cover 2 defenses, were consistently gashed on the ground. The Colts are among the worst run defenses in NFL history.

"Everybody was thinking the 3-4 defenses were the best thing since sliced bread,'' Colts defensive tackle Anthony McFarland said. "In the end, you have two Tampa 2 or Minnesota Cover 2 or whatever you call it going against each other. Both teams are small. Both teams have fast linebackers and fast defensive linemen."

Dungy and Smith are all about simplicity. In an age of complexity, the Cover 2 relies on simplicity. Instead of getting lost in a playbook of zone blitzes and multiple reads and confusing coverages, Dungy and Smith devise schemes in which fast, quick linebackers simply make plays.

Dungy and Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin developed the Cover 2 when they were together in Minnesota working for Dennis Green. Dungy made the Cover 2 a staple when he brought Kiffin to Tampa Bay and turned the Bucs into a dominating defense. Players loved it. A middle linebacker might drop back into coverage to give a Cover 3 look, but Dungy set up the defense so players made plays.

In Super Bowl XLI, you will see fast, undersized players flying around the field as if they are in fast forward. Many doubted the Colts' ability to go to the Super Bowl because of their poor regular-season run defense. They figured Larry Johnson, Jamal Lewis and others would treat the Colts' defense like speed bumps.

Dungy didn't panic. He made minor adjustments. McFarland started to come on as the biggest defensive tackle. Linebacker Rob Morris helped out on the strong side. Safety Bob Sanders returned from a knee injury to charge up from the secondary to knock down backs.

"It's about attitude and intensity," defensive end Dwight Freeney said. "It's not always about X's and O's and perfect defense. Guys weren't making plays [during the Colts' slump]. That's why you see an 80- or a 60-yard run. Even if a guy doesn't happen to make a play now, another guy is there to help. We are doing the same thing we've always done. Now, guys finally got it in their heads that we've got to be accountable. ''

Super Bowl XLI is about simplicity. Playmakers make plays. That's the defensive philosophies of Dungy and Smith. They try to find the best athletes. Then they coach them up and let them loose on the field. On the sidelines, neither coach panics, something Manning appreciates.

"That's something I've said since Coach Dungy has been here," Manning said. "He's calm on opening kickoff, and he's calm when you're down 21-3. … He's just a cool customer. I think that really spreads through the rest of the team, that it cannot be a panic situation and you can't try to get it all back at once.''

Patience is a virtue, which translates into a matchup of two class people who meet as friends in Super Bowl XLI.

John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

NFL arrives

Lovie Smith taking on Tony Dungy marks only the second time in the four major sports that the championship has both teams led by a black head coach/manager. In 1975, Al Attles' Warriors defeated KC Jones' Bullets in the NBA Finals.

Here's the list of black coaches in championships:

NBA

Year Coach Result
2006 Avery Johnson, Mavs Lost 4-2
2003 Byron Scott, Nets Lost 4-2
2002 Byron Scott, Nets Lost 4-0
1986 KC Jones, Celtics Won 4-2
1985 KC Jones, Celtics Lost 4-2
1984 KC Jones, Celtics Won 4-3
1979 Lenny Wilkens, Sonics Won 4-1
1978 Lenny Wilkens, Sonics Lost 4-3
1975 Al Attles, Warriors Won 4-0
1975 KC Jones, Bullets Lost 4-0
1969 Bill Russell, Celtics Won 4-3
1968 Bill Russell, Celtics Won 4-2

MLB

2002 Dusty Baker, Giants Lost 4-3
1993 Cito Gaston, Jays Won 4-2
1992 Cito Gaston, Jays Won 4-2


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs06/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2738645&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

[chivasregal]

I hope you guys noticed that both Tony and Lovie really played it down when the announcers mentioned the "black coach" significance. Thats because they are both class acts and don't want that to be the overriding issue of the fact their teams worked their butts off and achieved success.
Although they are the HC's they know it's the boys on the field who execute.
It is indeed a milestone, but like it has been said, their are lousy and there are great black and white coaches. But then the media always needs fresh angles to write about don't they. Congrats to both coaches, you guys are what is great about the NFL.

[BullheadCardFan]

I hope you guys noticed that both Tony and Lovie really played it down when the announcers mentioned the "black coach" significance. Thats because they are both class acts and don't want that to be the overriding issue of the fact their teams worked their butts off and achieved success.

They are both real class acts ...

[Gee!]

I am already tired of hearing about this .. Some of my best friends are black.. (i dont know who says african american on a daily basis).. Anyway.. Not one of us are talking about the color of the coaches skin.. I thought we have moved pass this.. Its so draining on the brain when these things get blown up like this.. I mean think of it.. If this topic wouldnt have been brought up, would anyone have thought of it? Or would everyone been thinking about and only football?

Fine, a black coach is gonna win the SB.. now we can get this out the way..its really silly to even care about a persons skin.. i think even bringing the topic up is racist..

[ColoradoCardsFan]

They are BOTH good men. :exclamationmark:

[JayGee]

I am already tired of hearing about this .. Some of my best friends are black.. (i dont know who says african american on a daily basis).. Anyway.. Not one of us are talking about the color of the coaches skin.. I thought we have moved pass this.. Its so draining on the brain when these things get blown up like this.. I mean think of it.. If this topic wouldnt have been brought up, would anyone have thought of it? Or would everyone been thinking about and only football?

Fine, a black coach is gonna win the SB.. now we can get this out the way..its really silly to even care about a persons skin.. i think even bringing the topic up is racist..

milestones for an underclass group are always significant. i can understand why a white man would downplay it because the obstacle of race just isnt there for them. for example, every single president of this country has been a white man. "would anyone have thought of [that]?" do you think that only white men are qualified to be president? if hillary clinton wins (god forbid), believe me it will be a major milestone that somebody other than a white man holds the presidency. doug williams winning the superbowl paved the way for more black QBs. art shell, dennis green paved the way for more black coaches. lovie and tony's appearance in the superbowl as head coaches will pave the way for even greater acceptance of black coaches and may be the first step to the abolishment of the rooney rule. the color barrier is a real barrier in this country and when it is broken, it makes for more opportunities for others. mike tomlin is the first young black guy given a chance to coach an nfl team; most guys have to pay years of dues and accomplishments and be passed over several jobs before getting there shot (marvin lewis). in each of these cases, somebody has to be the "first" to do it. both lovie and tony payed homage to the black coaches that came before them. while they're downplaying that as the big story and focusing on winning the game, they admit that they talk about it all the time, and now it's happening.

race SHOULDNT be an issue and it should never be used as a crutch for poor performance nor should there be special preference given for that reason. but to act like racism is a thing of the past and no longer an issue is just plain ignorance.

[HAVACARDSFAN]

While I congratulate, both Lovie and Tony for reaching the SuperBowl as the first black coaches in history, I really don't care what color these guys are. All the reports I've been watching on tv after these games keep talking about this subject.

I can care less if they are orange, purple or rainbow colored. I just congratulate them for being 'great' coaches and getting their respective teams to the big dance! I wish the media wouldn't make this the biggest topic, which I feel it will be for the next two weeks.

Being hispanic/latino/mexican (whatever we're called this week), I didn't push for Rivera at all, just because he's a minority. I pushed for whoever would get our Cardinals to the promise land at the end of the year. Now if Whisenhunt can get us a couple of games in Jan/Feb, then he can color himself any color he wants. Around these parts, he would basically walk on water WHEN he pulls that off.
Yeah, but then I can see the Media Headlines, "WHISENHUNT CAN'T SWIM"...LOL!!! :Cards logo:

[kjbad]

I would REALLY love to post in this thread, but I think I'll let you guys talk it out instead. :)

Let me look into my crystal ball...

-Someone will mention that Lovie Smith is the lowest-paid coach in the NFL this week, and then try to tie that into the fact that he is black. Both WAS coordinators, which make more than Lovie are white...they'll mention that too. And I guarantee you no one will criticize da Bears organization as racist for not giving Lovie his contract extension, even though the reporter has literally put 2 + 2 together...

-Black History Month is almost here, no less, so we have to hear talk about making history with the two black coaches in the Super Bowl.

And don't forget the Dungy angle - just last year, he was mourning the death of his son. This year, he's on top of the football world. and of course he will be the one given the credit by the media for "fixing" IND's defense.

You might want to turn off your TVs and plug your ears for the next two weeks.

[DUSK884]

I'm excited about seeing the Tampa 2 on every down for 4 quarters...(if the Bears lose anyway)

Both coaches are great men. It's Dungy's time... can't you feel it? Better to let Dungy win now to make room for us next year or the year after IMHO.

[ZOna_Style]

Who gives a ****.

[cardsnurd]

When we have truly gone past the color barrier, the color of the coaches won't be an issue. The media won't make such a big deal about it. And, we won't hear stupid comments on ESPN like "It's great for the game that these 2 coaches are black". It would obviously be a disgrace to ESPN and that nation if both coaches were white, or "other".

:Huh:
:Cards logo:

[dillon1]

It's about time. Next, is the first black GM's team in the SB. Rod Graves.:Cards logo:

[NJCardFan]

The only reason why this is an issue is because the media is making it an issue. Oh, can someone please remind me why everyone got their panties in a bunch when Rush said the same but about a black QB?

[Tucson]

The only reason why this is an issue is because the media is making it an issue. Oh, can someone please remind me why everyone got their panties in a bunch when Rush said the same but about a black QB?

I don't see the connection. Rush implied that McNabb wasn't as good as the media was making him out to be. No one here is saying that about Dungy or Smith.

What Rush said:

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

[SULLY]

race wouldnt be such an issue if the media didnt report it as one. **** i dont care if sasquatch is coaching the bears, and loch ness is coaching the colts. 2 deserving NFL coaches made it to the big game.

[crisper57]

*Yawn*

I'm over it. Congrats to the coaches. Congrats to the players.

I care more about Peyton's Thumb than the color of the coaches' skin. (Which is to say, not very much)

[veetel]

I will add my congrats to Tony and Lovie for their accomplishment, dedication, and hard work. They deserve accolades for what they've done... not for the color of their skin.

[kjbad]

A sign of progress? Not really...

By Bomani Jones
ESPN Page 2

Word on the street is that wins by the Colts and Bears on Sunday provided evidence of the progress the NFL has made with regard to race and coaching. Some would say that, by doing their jobs, Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith provided a milestone in the NFL's quest to desegregate its coaching ranks.

Y'okay. Not to ruin the joy of Black History Month coming a few days early, but such thinking is both ridiculous and dangerous.

BLACK COACHES IN THE NFL
Coach 1st Yr Record Yrs Playoffs
Art Shell 1989 56-52 7 3
Dennis Green 1992 113-94 13 8
Ray Rhodes 1995 37-42-1 5 2
Tony Dungy 1996 114-62 11 9
Herm Edwards 2001 48-48 6 4
Marvin Lewis 2003 35-29 4 1
Lovie Smith 2004 29-19 3 2
Romeo Crennel 2005 10-22 2 0

This may be the first time a black coach -- let alone two of them -- has made the Super Bowl, but successful black coaches have been the norm for the last 17 seasons. Of the eight black coaches hired in the NFL's modern era, all but Cleveland's Romeo Crennel have made the playoffs at least once. Of the seven who have made the playoffs, only Marvin Lewis has not made the playoffs at least twice. But Lewis, in fairness, was busy shaking the Bengals from a decade-and-change-long slumber, which was no small feat.

Why have black coaches been so successful? Seems as though it's because a black man can't get a job coaching in the NFL unless he's uncommonly impressive. The eight black coaches in the NFL's modern era have a combined record of 442-368-1, a .546 winning percentage. They've made the playoffs in 29 of their 50 combined seasons.

These results mirror what University of Pennsylvania economics professor Janice Madden found in her 2004 study of the differences in job performance between black and white coaches. She determined that the success of black coaches was "consistent with NFL teams 'requiring' that African-American coaches be better than Whites to obtain and to keep their positions."

'Twas an interesting conclusion, but it didn't take a Ph.D. to figure that out. Old folks have been saying similar things for years. In a 1999 interview with Time, Chris Rock said he worked as hard as he does because "[he] was raised to believe that [black people] had to be better than white people to succeed," a take on racism not unique to him.

Counterintuitive though it may seem, the success of black coaches appears to be more a symptom of racism than its cure.

That isn't to say there hasn't been progress in minority hiring in the NFL. It's just that more significant milestones in the fight for equity in hiring have been overlooked. There was greater cause for celebration when Ray Rhodes, fresh off two horrendous seasons coaching the Eagles, was hired by the Packers in 1999. The same could be said when Dungy, after a string of disappointing postseasons in Tampa Bay, was hired by the Colts shortly after being fired by the Buccaneers.

After years of black coaches being passed over for retreads, Rhodes and Dungy -- and, later, Dennis Green and Herman Edwards -- had become retreads themselves. They'd become insiders, part of the head coaching network. Their names were considered right alongside other guys that, for whatever reasons, hadn't gotten it done before but were still respected in the business.

That is progress.

Two men doing the jobs they're paid to do? Not so much.

There's a dangerous tendency to celebrate firsts, particularly when they involve minority achievements that match accomplishments previously done only by whites. From Jackie Robinson to Doug Williams to Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith, men that integrate the annals are treated as heroes.

But what are we truly saying? Why should Dungy and Smith feel honored to be the first black coaches in a Super Bowl? Why should they be more thankful for the opportunities they've received than anyone else? Why should doing their jobs be a big deal?

Super Bowl XLI should be remembered because of its coaches, and maybe it should be commemorated. But it should not be celebrated, nor should any group use it to show how much better things have gotten with regard to race. There is nothing worth celebrating about a league that has to force its franchises to interview non-white coaching candidates and finally has a black coach in the 41st edition of its biggest game.

That's not a good thing. That's a **** shame.

The NFL appears to be on the right track when it comes to desegregating the coaching ranks. Though some teams have tried to juke the Rooney Rule, the league is to be commended for its dedication to changing the status quo.

But the successes of Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith isn't revolutionary. It's really just more of the same.

[M0J0]

Like KJ I think I'll limit my comments and let you guys hash it out. It's a milestone and I'm happy it's happening.