From the Rumor Mill

[Vegas Cards Fan]

http://www.twincities.com/walters/ci_6624703


There's word up North the Vikings are interested in Warner.

How does everyone feel about that? Do they have an OLB or T that would make the trade worth it for us? I personally wouldn't like to see him traded for a draft pick, but if we can address OLB or CB I would be okay with it.

[saldawyz]

unless its depth players and high draft picks we're talking its not worth it. They ain't got nuttin' that could solidify positions that we're weak at. Not to mention we're talking jumping into the season w/o a parachute at the QB position. All in all, Warner should remain in red this season. IMO

[EuroCard]

http://www.twincities.com/walters/ci_6624703


There's word up North the Vikings are interested in Warner.

How does everyone feel about that? Do they have an OLB or T that would make the trade worth it for us? I personally wouldn't like to see him traded for a draft pick, but if we can address OLB or CB I would be okay with it.

I think Boyd's performance on the weekend answered that one for everyone!

[Ditship]

I think Boyd's performance on tghe weekend answered that one for everyone!
Bingo!

[Vegas Cards Fan]

I don't think he should leave either, but I think a lot of people might be a little too down on Boyd. Whis said himself that interception was his fault. I think if we have the opportunity to better our starters it could be an viable option. If Pace or Blackstock doesn't step up, we're looking to sign scraps from other teams. I don't like that.

[getn_jiggy]

Warner was considering retirement before this season, but decided to comeback to be a backup because he liked Matt, wanted to mentor him, liked Whiz, and wants to be a part of this organization. Plus he didn't want to move his family around. He's committed to being our backup for the next two years.

Trading him will be bad. Who will mentor Matt then? Boyd? Whiz is too busy as HC. WE NEED KURT. What happens if Matt reinjures either shoulder... I don't want Boyd playing another snap this season if at all possible.

[WeGotTheEdge]

Adrian Peterson?? :crossfingers:

I would not mind bringing in EJ Henderson, Antoine Winfield, Darren Sharper/Mike Doss, or Dwight Smith. I doubt we're gonna get any of these guys for Kurt, but I wouldn't hand him over for anything less. I don't know though, that would free up some cap space, allowing us to bring in a pretty good player after cuts. It might not be a bad idea to trade him for some draft picks and use his salary for something else.--Just an idea.

[DelawareCard]

No way you can trade Warner. Why don't they trade for a QB with Oakland or Philly? Not saying the options are great, but they have "capable" QB's that will be getting cut....

Oakland: Dante Culpepper, Josh McCown, Andrew Walter, JaMarcus Russell

Philadelphia: Donavan McNabb, AJ Feely, Kelly Holcomb, Kevin Kolb.

Obviously a few of those guys are more than capable and untradable, but unless they decide to keep 4 QB's, there will be some decent ones that get cut.

I'd love to have any of those guys as our #3 at the least.... Though I would like to see Korrodi first.

[gabe]

"Whis said himself that interception was his fault."

So you are saying the QB does not the job of not turning the football over and taking care of it? Is it possible that Boyd could have taken a sack rather than throw a pick-6? I personally feel it is the job of the QB to be responsible with the ball and not let the coach try to bail him out. Obviously he appreciates the effort from Whis but let's hope he learns from his mistakes.

[P16]

I'd be all for the trade, gives Warner a chance to play out his final years on the field, rather than from the bench, and would give us a chance to pick up a good player at one of the positions we have glaring weaknesses. Vikings have plenty of corners and defensive ends.

[docholiday]

I would hate to see that happen. Until Leinart starts to throw the ball with more zip the way Warner does - he needs all the help he can from Warner - and so will we.

Stay Red Warner! :Cards logo:

[Red Valley]

Why is it that half of the crazy rumors that I read on this board come from Minnesota.

[Mephisto]

trading warner would be a huge mistake unless we somehow got tons more from them because they are desperate. Sure if we make a Hershel walker type trade for him then fine but since thats not going to happen we are way better off with a proven backup than we are with boyd or someone of his ilk.

In fact Warner is probably a better starter than leinart to be honest but im not going to toot that horn. Leinart is our future and needs to develop now on the field.

[pg13]

Pro football is about win now! If you're not about using the best talent to win now you're not about winning. As you've seen with Chike, you're one or two injuries away from the whole season being a bust on almost any team. That's the nature of pro football.

When Warner was on NY, the D suffered a couple of key injuries when the team and Warner was 5-2. Strahan went down. The lost to DETROIT, letting Harrington go something like 22 frot 24, and suddenly at 5-4, they pull Warner. Of course the wanted to let Manning learn on the field. Well for the next 6 games he looked like the worst qb that had ever played the game. The season which had them headed for the playoffs was shot with 6 straight losses. It should have been seven but he got lucky on the last game.

But what about the rest of the team? They didn't get lucky. The just got beat up and hurt so this kid could try to learn at the pro level, at their expense. From the looks of last year he stilll hasn't learned enough.

So Warner sits again while guys that should be sittling and learning play. The Giants could have and most probably would have been in the playoffs the last three years. Waner still holds their all time completion % for a year. And if you think that's a sillly stat that means nothing, look at Eli's, the teams record and tell me that has nothing to do with it.

You don't really want Warner here or you would have, and would now, support him as the qb of right now. You don't, and never truly have. So trade him. Man up! Go with Matt. Pick up some guy off the waiver wire as your number two and live with it.

But to keep Warner here just so if Matt goes down is bs. Warner is the best qb on this team right now and for the forseeable future. If this team is about winning you let him play. If it's not you trade him to someone who wants to win now and be done with it.

[footballfamilyguy]

love warner, but if we can get depth at line (d or o) or def.... then pull the trigger... heck, backup qb's may be more plentiful in a little bit... just my humble, yet not so smart opinion....

[Fiasco]

Why is it that half of the crazy rumors that I read on this board come from Minnesota.

Only half? :poke:

[whythecardinals]

Pro football is about win now! If you're not about using the best talent to win now you're not about winning. As you've seen with Chike, you're one or two injuries away from the whole season being a bust on almost any team. That's the nature of pro football.

When Warner was on NY, the D suffered a couple of key injuries when the team and Warner was 5-2. Strahan went down. The lost to DETROIT, letting Harrington go something like 22 frot 24, and suddenly at 5-4, they pull Warner. Of course the wanted to let Manning learn on the field. Well for the next 6 games he looked like the worst qb that had ever played the game. The season which had them headed for the playoffs was shot with 6 straight losses. It should have been seven but he got lucky on the last game.

But what about the rest of the team? They didn't get lucky. The just got beat up and hurt so this kid could try to learn at the pro level, at their expense. From the looks of last year he stilll hasn't learned enough.

So Warner sits again while guys that should be sittling and learning play. The Giants could have and most probably would have been in the playoffs the last three years. Waner still holds their all time completion % for a year. And if you think that's a sillly stat that means nothing, look at Eli's, the teams record and tell me that has nothing to do with it.

You don't really want Warner here or you would have, and would now, support him as the qb of right now. You don't, and never truly have. So trade him. Man up! Go with Matt. Pick up some guy off the waiver wire as your number two and live with it.

But to keep Warner here just so if Matt goes down is bs. Warner is the best qb on this team right now and for the forseeable future. If this team is about winning you let him play. If it's not you trade him to someone who wants to win now and be done with it.

Yea you're right, I'm sure Minnesota will match his salary (not)!
Perhaps I've been a Cardinals fan too long (1973), but I think you're nuts to assume that just because we want a monster #2 quarterback, means he's not appreciatted.
Perhaps, your comments are more based on some deep-seated Warner hero worshipping than an actual evaluation of both the team needs and Kurt's impact.

Going to Minnesota would be tragedy....

Don't forget, you wrote :As much as I'm a Warner fan, Matt will be a franchise QB. This guy has touch for days. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a great year. I'd personally rather seen Kurt playing and Matt learning, but make no mistake, Matt is the real deal. Nuff said.

[SO. CAL Heart-Throb]

i'd trade warner for winfield and another defensive guy... warner gets paid wayy too much to be a backup here..

[NightHawk11and81]

Pro football is about win now! If you're not about using the best talent to win now you're not about winning. As you've seen with Chike, you're one or two injuries away from the whole season being a bust on almost any team. That's the nature of pro football.

When Warner was on NY, the D suffered a couple of key injuries when the team and Warner was 5-2. Strahan went down. The lost to DETROIT, letting Harrington go something like 22 frot 24, and suddenly at 5-4, they pull Warner. Of course the wanted to let Manning learn on the field. Well for the next 6 games he looked like the worst qb that had ever played the game. The season which had them headed for the playoffs was shot with 6 straight losses. It should have been seven but he got lucky on the last game.

But what about the rest of the team? They didn't get lucky. The just got beat up and hurt so this kid could try to learn at the pro level, at their expense. From the looks of last year he stilll hasn't learned enough.

So Warner sits again while guys that should be sittling and learning play. The Giants could have and most probably would have been in the playoffs the last three years. Waner still holds their all time completion % for a year. And if you think that's a sillly stat that means nothing, look at Eli's, the teams record and tell me that has nothing to do with it.

You don't really want Warner here or you would have, and would now, support him as the qb of right now. You don't, and never truly have. So trade him. Man up! Go with Matt. Pick up some guy off the waiver wire as your number two and live with it.

But to keep Warner here just so if Matt goes down is bs. Warner is the best qb on this team right now and for the forseeable future. If this team is about winning you let him play. If it's not you trade him to someone who wants to win now and be done with it.

Are you kidding me? I hope you weren't being serious, because if you were, this is the dumbest idea I've ever seen.

[Reckon]

Got to keep Warner. Now if Bryant Johnson is on his last year of contract then I'd see if there is any interest in him.

[Keenum]

Warner does not want to move his family again (said so last year), has really become friends with Matt, and like the organization.
However, it looks like this move would be up to the Cardinals and Vikings. And Warner did say recently he'd love to have "one more chance..."
But this is coming from someone who says there "may be" a chance the Vikings are interested. If they want an older QB who may can still start, no doubt they are also interested in Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testeverde, Trent Dilfer, and heck, probably even Jake Plummer.
Warner may just be one on their list, unless they see something different with him.

[Oregonred]

http://www.twincities.com/walters/ci_6624703


There's word up North the Vikings are interested in Warner.

How does everyone feel about that? Do they have an OLB or T that would make the trade worth it for us? I personally wouldn't like to see him traded for a draft pick, but if we can address OLB or CB I would be okay with it.

NO! Poor idea. The Cards need two good QBS in case of injury. :Cards logo:

[GlendaleCard]

The Cardinals can't trade Warner. If they do, then we're stuck with Boyd. I don't mind seeing Boyd screw up in the pre-season, but I absolutely do not want to see him playing in the regular season. Every time I've seen Boyd, he's been terrible.

I saw Boyd in Pitt last pre-season and he was terrible. He was also terrible in NFL Europe. I don't know why teams keep signing him. Considering that Leinart got injured twice last year, chances are, we are going to need Warner at some point this year. So, trading him would be stupid until we know Leinart can make it through a whole season or develops into one of the premier QB's in the league

[Vegas Cards Fan]

Got to keep Warner. Now if Bryant Johnson is on his last year of contract then I'd see if there is any interest in him.

I was thinking that the other day... depending on how Breaston looks at WR the next few games.

[crisper57]

From Urban:

I saw the Minnesota media has brought up the idea the Vikings might be interested in trading for Kurt Warner (it's one line buried deep in this column). I seem to recall the same kind of “rumor” being brought up about Larry Fitzgerald a few months ago. Bottom line, there is no reason for the Cards to get rid of Warner. He is too valuable both as a mentor to Matt Leinart and as a backup, especially since Leinart has already been dinged a couple of times in his career. It sounds to me more like the Vikings are realizing Tarvaris Jackson might not work. It is also amazing to me that one singular throwaway line can generate so much talk.

[Mephisto]

Pro football is about win now! If you're not about using the best talent to win now you're not about winning. As you've seen with Chike, you're one or two injuries away from the whole season being a bust on almost any team. That's the nature of pro football.

When Warner was on NY, the D suffered a couple of key injuries when the team and Warner was 5-2. Strahan went down. The lost to DETROIT, letting Harrington go something like 22 frot 24, and suddenly at 5-4, they pull Warner. Of course the wanted to let Manning learn on the field. Well for the next 6 games he looked like the worst qb that had ever played the game. The season which had them headed for the playoffs was shot with 6 straight losses. It should have been seven but he got lucky on the last game.

But what about the rest of the team? They didn't get lucky. The just got beat up and hurt so this kid could try to learn at the pro level, at their expense. From the looks of last year he stilll hasn't learned enough.

So Warner sits again while guys that should be sittling and learning play. The Giants could have and most probably would have been in the playoffs the last three years. Waner still holds their all time completion % for a year. And if you think that's a sillly stat that means nothing, look at Eli's, the teams record and tell me that has nothing to do with it.

You don't really want Warner here or you would have, and would now, support him as the qb of right now. You don't, and never truly have. So trade him. Man up! Go with Matt. Pick up some guy off the waiver wire as your number two and live with it.

But to keep Warner here just so if Matt goes down is bs. Warner is the best qb on this team right now and for the forseeable future. If this team is about winning you let him play. If it's not you trade him to someone who wants to win now and be done with it.


Its the NFL where you often need 2 quality QB's to win. Just ask the Eagles. Starting QB's get injured and unless you have a solid backup you are done. We cant and wont get equal value in return for warner so we keep him. It is the smartest thing to do.

[pg13]

Wow, three people responded to my post. For me that's shocking. In any case I'm responding to you three.

My main point was, pro football is about winning NOW. To do that you play your best players NOW! Next year is never an option because for everyone on the team, the very next time they play, could be their last.
It's not a learn on the job situation unless you've got NO other choice.

Matt may indeed be the qb of the future, but he is not the best qb on the team. He's done nothing to win that position. Kurt does not need to mentor him. Matt needs to learn from Kurt. That Green sold out Warner and the whole team last year doesn't automatically mean you should continue down that track...not if you want to win. Buying into that is silly. But since this seems to be so, the idea of keeping Warner around as insurance in case Matt gets hurt is just plain selfish.

This Cardinal community on this board has never show Kurt any real love or respect. To say we need him as a back up now and to show him the kind of respect for his talents that should have been shown to him as the starter, well seems a little like a back handed compliment to me.

If he stays a Card, so be it. If he's number 2 because of the politics of the situation, so be it. I'm glad for all those who are happy with that. But it's not right. You wouldn't be happy with JJ starting over Edge and Shipp. Why you want or would settle for this is beyond me.

Oh and as a final note, didn't anyone but me find it odd that Warner was pulled after one series. Is that all Wiz needed to see? And if it was, what does that say? "You solidified your number two spot." To me, as a fan, I'd hoped to see Warner play a quarter, since the pre season might be the only time he plays all year. " Hey, get your 4 plays in, your done." What's that? In any event, go Cards.

[thesmel]

Cards QB Warner to Vikings?
There's buzz that the Vikings could be interested in veteran Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner. -- Pioneer Press

I think you listen to the call and see what they offer. unless your taking the call who are you to say it's a good or bad offer. Kurt will ultimately make the decision he's earned that.
I would love to have kurt finish his current contract and sign with the Cars another Veteran back up QB contract and finish his career with the Cards. He is like a coach on the field with the clip board and can win in the NFl with a decent line.
I would also love to see him Start for the Vikings if that's what he wants. trade us a great cornerback or olineman or LB/DL and a draft pick.

I wish folks would get off the BJ trade thing or he'll just leave next year for fans love and money. Just a taste in preseason game of what he brings to the cards trio recievers corp. you all know I've said my piece but I'll say it for those who missed it again.

BJ is the key to our passing success, Fitz and Q are less effective with out his speed in the deep threat role. Fitz and Q are great anywhere anytime but are less effective without BJ's sprints clearing the safeties. 18+ yrds per catch does not grow on trees and he would be a star 1 or 2 reciever on any other NFL team. His excellent character and attitude accepting his role behind Q and Fitz is honorable, honor him with a new great contract and cheers from fans cause he want's to be a Cardinal. Please take a look at TO and other blow mouth recievers and appreciate a good team player with talent. Just tell me what reciever you would trade him for? befor you get into other positions.

[captjack]

from the Az Republic...........

No truth

There has been a small amount of speculation out of Minnesota that the Vikings might be interested in trading for backup quarterback Kurt Warner.

The Cardinals haven't heard from the Vikings, and if they do, the answer will come quickly.

"They can't have him," Whisenhunt said with a smile Wednesday.

It doesn't make sense for the Cardinals to trade Warner because he's their only experienced backup. The other two quarterbacks in camp, Shane Boyd and Toby Korrodi, have never taken a snap in a regular-season game.

[Mephisto]

Wow, three people responded to my post. For me that's shocking. In any case I'm responding to you three.

My main point was, pro football is about winning NOW. To do that you play your best players NOW! Next year is never an option because for everyone on the team, the very next time they play, could be their last.
It's not a learn on the job situation unless you've got NO other choice.

Matt may indeed be the qb of the future, but he is not the best qb on the team. He's done nothing to win that position. Kurt does not need to mentor him. Matt needs to learn from Kurt. That Green sold out Warner and the whole team last year doesn't automatically mean you should continue down that track...not if you want to win. Buying into that is silly. But since this seems to be so, the idea of keeping Warner around as insurance in case Matt gets hurt is just plain selfish.

This Cardinal community on this board has never show Kurt any real love or respect. To say we need him as a back up now and to show him the kind of respect for his talents that should have been shown to him as the starter, well seems a little like a back handed compliment to me.

If he stays a Card, so be it. If he's number 2 because of the politics of the situation, so be it. I'm glad for all those who are happy with that. But it's not right. You wouldn't be happy with JJ starting over Edge and Shipp. Why you want or would settle for this is beyond me.

Oh and as a final note, didn't anyone but me find it odd that Warner was pulled after one series. Is that all Wiz needed to see? And if it was, what does that say? "You solidified your number two spot." To me, as a fan, I'd hoped to see Warner play a quarter, since the pre season might be the only time he plays all year. " Hey, get your 4 plays in, your done." What's that? In any event, go Cards.

In a perfect world the team would be all about now but thats not the way it is. Let us also not forget Warners possible thumb issue which has caused him this past season to fumble the ball at an alarming rate. I dont think we could get much i a trade with the vikings. Would you like a small upgrade on defensive end, corner, or linebacker while degrading the back QB a ton? I wouldnt.

[adamcardsfan]

DO you think Minni would give us Chad Greenway for Kurt?? He's been hurt and hasn't really done anything yet, but coming out in the draft he was as good or better than AJ Hawk. I would be fine moving Kurt as long as we get a potential starter back in return. We could then sign a backup after preseason on the cheap. I bet Kelly Holcomb would be great here.

[getn_jiggy]

No truth

There has been a small amount of speculation out of Minnesota that the Vikings might be interested in trading for backup quarterback Kurt Warner.

The Cardinals haven't heard from the Vikings, and if they do, the answer will come quickly.

"They can't have him," Whisenhunt said with a smile Wednesday.

It doesn't make sense for the Cardinals to trade Warner because he's their only experienced backup. The other two quarterbacks in camp, Shane Boyd and Toby Korrodi, have never taken a snap in a regular-season game.

[getn_jiggy]

You can find the above article on azcentral.com/sports/cardinals

[WeGotTheEdge]

Just tell me what reciever you would trade him for? befor you get into other positions.

Ok, I'm so sick of all this about BJ, we've all heard you the last 500 times. I agree with you on some things with BJ's game, but for you to say this...I just have to rip on it. :bibl:

Marvin Harrison
(Ind - WR)
Terrell Owens
(Dal - WR)
Reggie Wayne
(Ind - WR)
Donald Driver
(GB - WR)
Torry Holt
(StL - WR)
Chad Johnson
(Cin - WR)
Steve Smith
(Car - WR)
Lee Evans
(Buf - WR)
Javon Walker
(Den - WR)
Roy Williams
(Det - WR)
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
(Cin - WR)
Plaxico Burress
(NYG - WR)
Darrell Jackson
(SF - WR)
Marques Colston
(NO - WR)
Joey Galloway
(TB - WR)
Laveranues Coles
(NYJ - WR)
Andre Johnson
(Hou - WR)
Terry Glenn
(Dal - WR)
Mike Furrey
(Det - WR)
Reggie Brown
(Phi - WR)
Hines Ward
(Pit - WR)
Jerricho Cotchery
(NYJ - WR)
Braylon Edwards
(Cle - WR)
Santana Moss
(Was - WR)
Mark Clayton
(Bal - WR)
Marty Booker
(Mia - WR)
Devery Henderson
(NO - WR)
Eddie Kennison
(KC - WR)
Muhsin Muhammad
(Chi - WR)
Bernard Berrian
(Chi - WR)
Donte' Stallworth
(NE - WR)
Reche Caldwell
(NE - WR)
Deion Branch
(Sea - WR)
Santonio Holmes
(Pit - WR)
Joe Horn
(Atl - WR)
Chris Chambers
(Mia - WR)
Drew Bennett
(StL - WR)
Derrick Mason
(Bal - WR)
Vincent Jackson
(SD - WR)

--sorry that I've drifted off the subject, couldn't let this one fly though.--

[P16]

DO you think Minni would give us Chad Greenway for Kurt?? He's been hurt and hasn't really done anything yet, but coming out in the draft he was as good or better than AJ Hawk. I would be fine moving Kurt as long as we get a potential starter back in return. We could then sign a backup after preseason on the cheap. I bet Kelly Holcomb would be great here.

Wishful thinking, but no, the Vikings wouldn't give up Greenway. He was injured last year, but should get his chance this year. He's still a great LB prospect, and I doubt they'd part with him to get 2 years out of Warner. Would be nice though

[Vegas Cards Fan]

I wish folks would get off the BJ trade thing or he'll just leave next year for fans love and money. Just a taste in preseason game of what he brings to the cards trio recievers corp. you all know I've said my piece but I'll say it for those who missed it again.

BJ is the key to our passing success, Fitz and Q are less effective with out his speed in the deep threat role. Fitz and Q are great anywhere anytime but are less effective without BJ's sprints clearing the safeties. 18+ yrds per catch does not grow on trees and he would be a star 1 or 2 reciever on any other NFL team. His excellent character and attitude accepting his role behind Q and Fitz is honorable, honor him with a new great contract and cheers from fans cause he want's to be a Cardinal. Please take a look at TO and other blow mouth recievers and appreciate a good team player with talent. Just tell me what reciever you would trade him for? befor you get into other positions.

It's simple. If he stops dropping balls in the endzone people will no longer talk about trading him.

Also, we needed him in a three receiver set because we didn't have the run to set up the deep ball.

I do agree with you about his attitude, but attitude alone will not win games.

[No. 1 fan]

Bryant Johnson is the best 3rd WR in the league. It is not only his talent that gives him that title. It also deals with his attitude. We could have someone like Keyshawn and want the **** ball. With the 2 best WRs on the team, probably not a great situation. I have never heard him say anything negative about his role on this team. The chemistry with Q and Fitz is great. Why risk that by picking up someone else to replace him next year. I would resign him now until 2011 that way we can keep our trio together for many years. If you watched the preseason game when they took out Q and Fitz, BJ was sooo much better than all of the other WRs. Breaston excites me in the return game but I sure don't see anything of him as a WR. :cardinals:

[pg13]

In a perfect world the team would be all about now but thats not the way it is. Let us also not forget Warners possible thumb issue which has caused him this past season to fumble the ball at an alarming rate. I dont think we could get much i a trade with the vikings. Would you like a small upgrade on defensive end, corner, or linebacker while degrading the back QB a ton? I wouldnt.

The THUMB hasn't been an issue for several years now. The fumbling has a lot to do with get the shizits knocked out of you on almost every play because your oline is offfering almost no protection. The 64% completion rate plus the 8.2 yds for pass atest to his effectiveness. And even with some of the worst line play in the NFL in recent memory in NY & AZ he's still thrown more td's then int's and completed more that 64% of his passes with over 7yds per pass. His qb rating for those 3 years is in the high 80's. Those are not back up numbers on anyones team. On teams as bad as NY and AZ have been, they're off the charts. I'm about letting him play. If he wanted to coach he'd have retired. If sitting your best qb is the back up plan, what kind of plan is that? Again, why pull Warner after 4 plays in a preseason game? Don't you find that odd? I'm assuming he still has to be learning the offense. If he doesn't, doesn't that mean he's mastered it already. If that's the case, then what does that say about everyone else?

Again all that said, I know it's not going to change anything or any bodies mind on this board, but from a logic stand point it doesn't make sense. Two time league MVP, SB winning QB, still healthy and putting up big numbers, sit! That's silly. The guy playing ahead of him should be one of the top five guys in the league, not somebody still learning the pro game.

[BulldogsCards]

http://www.twincities.com/walters/ci_6624703


There's word up North the Vikings are interested in Warner.

How does everyone feel about that? Do they have an OLB or T that would make the trade worth it for us? I personally wouldn't like to see him traded for a draft pick, but if we can address OLB or CB I would be okay with it.

We need to add talent on both sides of the ball so I would be open to it if they offer some good talent in exchange for Warner's services.

Adrian Peterson?? :crossfingers:

I would not mind bringing in EJ Henderson, Antoine Winfield, Darren Sharper/Mike Doss, or Dwight Smith. I doubt we're gonna get any of these guys for Kurt, but I wouldn't hand him over for anything less. I don't know though, that would free up some cap space, allowing us to bring in a pretty good player after cuts. It might not be a bad idea to trade him for some draft picks and use his salary for something else.--Just an idea.

I agree with your selections, we need talent and they have it but it will cost them. They need an experienced qb.

[WeGotTheEdge]

The THUMB hasn't been an issue for several years now. The fumbling has a lot to do with get the shizits knocked out of you on almost every play because your oline is offfering almost no protection. The 64% completion rate plus the 8.2 yds for pass atest to his effectiveness. And even with some of the worst line play in the NFL in recent memory in NY & AZ he's still thrown more td's then int's and completed more that 64% of his passes with over 7yds per pass. His qb rating for those 3 years is in the high 80's. Those are not back up numbers on anyones team. On teams as bad as NY and AZ have been, they're off the charts. I'm about letting him play. If he wanted to coach he'd have retired. If sitting your best qb is the back up plan, what kind of plan is that? Again, why pull Warner after 4 plays in a preseason game? Don't you find that odd? I'm assuming he still has to be learning the offense. If he doesn't, doesn't that mean he's mastered it already. If that's the case, then what does that say about everyone else?

Again all that said, I know it's not going to change anything or any bodies mind on this board, but from a logic stand point it doesn't make sense. Two time league MVP, SB winning QB, still healthy and putting up big numbers, sit! That's silly. The guy playing ahead of him should be one of the top five guys in the league, not somebody still learning the pro game.

:blahblah: OK, SERIOUSLY!!! I AM SOOOO TIRED OF YOU WARNER WORSHIPERS!!!
I don't care about your guys' stupid stats, I dont care about your guys' stupid excuses, and I really don't care for reading post after post about how Warner should be the starter. Here's the bottom line!

Kurt Warner with the Cards is 3-12. With him on the bench we are 7-10, so stop blaming it on the team, cause obviously we win more without him. Our winning percentage is more than DOUBLE with him on the pine.

P.S. Not just calling you out PG,:peace: I'm callin' out all the Warner lovers.

[PV1949]

Warner is happy where he is. Whis pulled him after 4 plays because he stated in the previous week that the players were going to stay in long enough to demonstrate that they were playing at the level he needed or the time he allocated was up. Warner moved the ball and scored. He got the rest of the night off. L had to stay in until he ran through his time, which was the first quarter.

I have seen every game Warner has ever played professionally, including the European games. He has been beaten up because of really poor lines. He has been utterly great when given protection and playing his game, the short fast pass over the middle or to the outside with the arena football timing. When coaches have tried to change his throwing pattern and his timing, with no line to protect him, he has had the heck kicked out of him, so he got gun shy. I would too. Get rid of the ball before having your head handed to you. In NY, I timed the avg time he had in one game to throw, and it was less than 2.1 secs from receiving the snap. You can't even sneeze in that time. One game here in AZ I made a bet with some fans and we got out my stop watch and the avg was under 2 secs!. Can you say free beer for me!

I think Whis might see his value here, and don't be surprised if you see him start a few games. If Whis was really smart, he would alternate L and W and really screw up the defense on the other side. But with our line again in doubt, I really don't want Kurt to have to start and play every game and have it kicked out of him again. I have too much respect for him and he is starting to get up there. Not that he couldn't with a great line, but he has not had one since StL won the super bowl and everybody on the line started taking off. Remember, the center came here after the SB, and that started the destruction of their line. And they had to play a new guy at that position, and that is what got his thumb hurt. No pass protection.

Let him play out his years here, play enough to win the games for us as backup (if Whis is smart and wants to win, when L is not doing too good, but in W) and not get kicked to heck. He will be able to get up and move on Monday without a lot of pain.

If you want to do some real investigation, get out your stop watch and next game post the average protection time that the qb has before being hurried or sacked the next game. See if it is the same for the 1, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th qtrs. Post it for the different qbs. If not rushed, post how long it takes to get rid of the ball. That will really help people see clearly about what helps make a qb great.

BTW, one game last year Peyton had an average of over 7 secs before he got hurried. He could take a nap, get a beer and popcorn, come back into the game, and still find a receiver.:sarcasmalert:

[Fan43]

Nice post, PV1949.

[pg13]

:blahblah: OK, SERIOUSLY!!! I AM SOOOO TIRED OF YOU WARNER WORSHIPERS!!!
I don't care about your guys' stupid stats, I dont care about your guys' stupid excuses, and I really don't care for reading post after post about how Warner should be the starter. Here's the bottom line!

Kurt Warner with the Cards is 3-12. With him on the bench we are 7-10, so stop blaming it on the team, cause obviously we win more without him. Our winning percentage is more than DOUBLE with him on the pine.

P.S. Not just calling you out PG,:peace: I'm callin' out all the Warner lovers.

Ahhhhh, here's the board I know and love. Show da love. This is why I say trade him. This is the respect he gets from the mighty and loyal fan base. Warner by himself lost all those games. A great mind at work, yes indeed. Trade him.

[pg13]

Nice post, PV1949.
I agree. I hadn't heard about the reason he got only the one series, but I guess I can live with that. But again PV's post was a nice read.
:Cards logo:

[WeGotTheEdge]

Ahhhhh, here's the board I know and love. Show da love. This is why I say trade him. This is the respect he gets from the mighty and loyal fan base. Warner by himself lost all those games. A great mind at work, yes indeed. Trade him.

The Cardinals are obviously a better team when he is not playing, take a look at the stat. Individual stats mean nothing to me, it's all about the score board buddy. I have seen Kurt with my own eyes single handedly blow games, and as a QB you CANNOT do that. As a QB you have to put your team in position to win, and he obviously can't do that. 3-12?? sorry dude, can't part on this one. Oh, by the way, I did not say we should trade him a single time in that post. I do think if the price is right, then hell yeah, adios :wave: . I don't care who you are, if you are being paid 5 mil and you've been demoted, it's time to go. I'll take a prime time LB/CB, a guy that will actually take the field. you guys can say all this BS about him being a "teacher," If he wants to be a teacher then cut him and make him the **** QB coach.

Any Ways....:cardinals:

[pg13]

The Cardinals are obviously a better team when he is not playing, take a look at the stat. Individual stats mean nothing to me, it's all about the score board buddy. I have seen Kurt with my own eyes single handedly blow games, and as a QB you CANNOT do that. As a QB you have to put your team in position to win, and he obviously can't do that. 3-12?? sorry dude, can't part on this one. Oh, by the way, I did not say we should trade him a single time in that post. I do think if the price is right, then hell yeah, adios :wave: . I don't care who you are, if you are being paid 5 mil and you've been demoted, it's time to go. I'll take a prime time LB/CB, a guy that will actually take the field. you guys can say all this BS about him being a "teacher," If he wants to be a teacher then cut him and make him the **** QB coach.

Any Ways....:cardinals:

Hey, I have no beef with you. You're entitled to your point of view. I said trade him, because I'd rather see him go some place where he's going to play. He, IMO, wasn't demoted for how he was playing, it was a cosmetic decesion. The whole team sucked at that time. If you think that wasn't so, look at Edge's numbers. Look at Matt's numbers. Even when the team could finally run the ball in from inside the 5, it's not like Matt's numbers became lights out. If Matt benefited from the TEAM finally being able to right it self some what, why didn't his play really improve. If playing well was the standard, Matt had a half dozen games that were far worse then the game Warner was having when he was pulled. By that messure Matt should have been pulled. But as I said I have no beef with you, we just view it differently.:biggrin:

[WeGotTheEdge]

He, IMO, wasn't demoted for how he was playing, it was a cosmetic decesion.

Last year was definately a cosmetic decision, no question about it. However, it was not when he lost his job to McCown. Yeah, we both have diff opinions, it's all good. That's why we're all on hear, to get some different opinions and looks at things. No prob.

[Fan43]

He has been beaten up because of really poor lines. He has been utterly great when given protection and playing his game

So true. :)

WeGotTheEdge..., come on.., you can't put it all off on Warner. That's ridiculous!
WARNER WORSHIPERS!!! Call it what you may..., I'm very proud to say.., I'm a Warner fan, and for good reason.

pg13.., I think he's better off as backup. It's just my opinion, but I don't think he can take a full season anymore. I guess he might make it behind a good OL, but that's not going to happen in Arizona.., and there's no way he's going to make another move. Keep in mind..., all it takes is one good blow to the head, and he's finished. I think that was proven last season, during the Rams game. It's actually a well known fact, which is why Green had no business signing him on, with that shell of a OL.

These threads are so ridiculous. Why not see if for what it is, and leave it alone.

[Darth Llama]

I proudly consider myself a fan of Kurt Warner as well. While I agree with Matt Leinart being our starter, I am more then happy to have a class act like Kurt Warner on our team.

He's a great QB and a stand up guy. I fully support #7 and #13 both. If Matt goes down for any reason, I'll be the first one to cheer for Kurt when he walks on the field.

[Mephisto]

:blahblah: OK, SERIOUSLY!!! I AM SOOOO TIRED OF YOU WARNER WORSHIPERS!!!
I don't care about your guys' stupid stats, I dont care about your guys' stupid excuses, and I really don't care for reading post after post about how Warner should be the starter. Here's the bottom line!

Kurt Warner with the Cards is 3-12. With him on the bench we are 7-10, so stop blaming it on the team, cause obviously we win more without him. Our winning percentage is more than DOUBLE with him on the pine.

P.S. Not just calling you out PG,:peace: I'm callin' out all the Warner lovers.

Talk about a ridiculous stat. You just found one. You are basically blaming the losses on Warner. Warner has played better than any QB since he came to Arizona. That isnt Warner worshipping it is a fact.

In 2005 the Rams were 2-6 with Bulger as QB and 4-4 with Jamie Martin as QB so the Rams clearly kept the wrong QB. We should hurry up and find Jamie Martin because he has been better than any of our starters. Finally our QB questions are solved.

[kjbad]

I think some of you have a serious case of "Battered Fan Syndrome"...we have the BEST backup QB in the league right now, a guy who is good enough to start on other teams and has won as a starter. We've never had that before. So now that we finally get QB depth, we should kick Pop Warner to the curb???

Are some of you really so naive to think that Leinart will never get his bell rung or get injured this season? And exactly who will come in and lead this team if that is the case, SHANE BOYD??? Put down the Leinart Latte long enough to listen to reason...Warner is worth every penny of his salary, especially on a team that is this thin in the o-line right now. He went out there and proved that he can still make quick reads and get rid of the ball quickly, what more do you want?

[P16]

Talk about a ridiculous stat. You just found one. You are basically blaming the losses on Warner. Warner has played better than any QB since he came to Arizona. That isnt Warner worshipping it is a fact.

In 2005 the Rams were 2-6 with Bulger as QB and 4-4 with Jamie Martin as QB so the Rams clearly kept the wrong QB. We should hurry up and find Jamie Martin because he has been better than any of our starters. Finally our QB questions are solved.

Many of the losses can be credited to Warner for fumbling 7 times a game. But he is a valuable backup, and without him if Leinart goes down, our season is over.

[PV1949]

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 16, 2007 09:47 PM

FLAGSTAFF - Earlier this week, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was asked what he would like to see from his first-team offense in Saturday's preseason game against Houston.

"A first down," he said.

Whisenhunt was smiling when he said it, but he wasn't joking. The starting offense didn't gain a first down until its third series last week against Oakland and didn't score in a little more than a quarter of action.

"I'd like to see us have success on a drive earlier than the third series," Whisenhunt said. "I think that's important for us. We're trying to establish a tempo and get going offensively earlier in the game and be a little sharper. If we can get that rectified and show improvement, I'll be happy."

The starters are scheduled to play well into the second quarter Saturday, with backup quarterback Kurt Warner taking over for Matt Leinart for a couple of series before the half. Coaches don't want to play Warner behind the second-team offensive line.


I believe this supports what I said. I think Whis might even might start Kurt this year because he thinks he has the best chance of winning. Whis is being very protective of Kurt and sees something. He wants his O-line to be top notch when he puts him in, and he thinks he has what it makes to win games. He will only use Kurt when he has to (to win that is). Whis seems to have some smarts, and why trade a MVP and Super Bowl winner that can still win? Let Matt take the hits and roughing up, he is young, and then when you need the ole pro to come in and win, put in Kurt. Let the O line start jelling, let Edge see if he can still run (and not over the hillas he is really showing right now), let JJ prove he is not a bust, let any runner avg over 5 yards per carry! That way we can just hand the ball off and get first downs without resorting to the run-run-throw-punt that this team has become to be known for. Whis seems to be a tactical coach. Thank goodness. Maybe he might even be flexible enough to win for us with a rather mediocre O line. I just hope at some time the bidwells step up with the money for a first rate O line. That is what an offense must be built around first. Then the run, then the pass. All great teams have had great O lines. They are what makes your runners and passers look great. Give them the holes, give them the time to pass. It is a chess game. Protect the King and Queen from the berserkers at the gate.

Anyone going to take me up on timing the O line for this game? Anybody going to the game and take a stop watch and pad and pencil. It would really be nice to see someone post those stats on this board instead of just throwing trash around so we have real data to talk about, not arbitrary stats that don't show what is happening around the people playing the game. Whis has caught one by saying that he doesn't want Kurt playing behind second stringers, so look for the first string O line to stay in while he is playing.

[WeGotTheEdge]

Talk about a ridiculous stat. You just found one. You are basically blaming the losses on Warner. Warner has played better than any QB since he came to Arizona. That isnt Warner worshipping it is a fact.

In 2005 the Rams were 2-6 with Bulger as QB and 4-4 with Jamie Martin as QB so the Rams clearly kept the wrong QB. We should hurry up and find Jamie Martin because he has been better than any of our starters. Finally our QB questions are solved.

That was one year, and the year that he had nagging injuries. There's a ridiculous stat. How about you look at his whole career there. He's 36-25 as the Ram's starter. I'm tellin' you, if Kurt Warner was actually winning games he wouldn't of been pulled. It doesn't matter how good or bad he's playing, if he's winning games, you stick with him.

[Vegas Cards Fan]

I think some of you have a serious case of "Battered Fan Syndrome"...we have the BEST backup QB in the league right now, a guy who is good enough to start on other teams and has won as a starter. We've never had that before. So now that we finally get QB depth, we should kick Pop Warner to the curb???

Are some of you really so naive to think that Leinart will never get his bell rung or get injured this season? And exactly who will come in and lead this team if that is the case, SHANE BOYD??? Put down the Leinart Latte long enough to listen to reason...Warner is worth every penny of his salary, especially on a team that is this thin in the o-line right now. He went out there and proved that he can still make quick reads and get rid of the ball quickly, what more do you want?

Are you telling me that if we were able to get a solid corner, outside linebacker, or tackle for Warner you would not take it based on his ability as a back up. If we improve our starting line-up we improve our chance to win. By shoring up our defense or offensive line it would give the quaterback on a team that wants to RUN the ball (us) a measure of safety. I'm not saying boot Warner off the squad but to not look at those options, if presented, is utterly foolish.

Oh, and this is personal opinion, just like yours was, but I think Billy Volek was screwed in Tennessee and he could be in contention to be the best backup QB in the league right now. He had many multiple touchdown peformances prior to the drafting of Vince Young and is younger than Kurt Warner.

[Vegas Cards Fan]

I know my post about Volek is a bold statement, but I was rooting for him to start last year and believe if he was named the starter and Collins hadn't been brought in he would have done much better.

[SO. CAL Heart-Throb]

IMO he gets paid wayy to much to ride the pine, restructure the deal...

[kjbad]

Are you telling me that if we were able to get a solid corner, outside linebacker, or tackle for Warner you would not take it based on his ability as a back up. If we improve our starting line-up we improve our chance to win. By shoring up our defense or offensive line it would give the quaterback on a team that wants to RUN the ball (us) a measure of safety. I'm not saying boot Warner off the squad but to not look at those options, if presented, is utterly foolish.

I wouldn't do it for Warner, no. This team will need two QBs, it's not a matter of if but when. Warner will be asked to run the offense at some point in the season, so he should stay.

Oh, and this is personal opinion, just like yours was, but I think Billy Volek was screwed in Tennessee and he could be in contention to be the best backup QB in the league right now. He had many multiple touchdown peformances prior to the drafting of Vince Young and is younger than Kurt Warner.

I have been on Volek's bandwagon for a while now, and he did get screwed in TEN. Norv Turner will do wonders for him, but the Chargers have always had an eye for QB talent. I won't disagree that he could be a candidate for best backup QB.

[WeGotTheEdge]

I'd but David Garrard and Charlie Batch above Warner as well. You guys are crazy if you don't think we should bring in Antoine Winfield and/or EJ Henderson for Kurt. I know it's now not gonna happen, but these are some nice products and would immidiately turn our below-average/average to above-average/good. Just look at the picture, #1 Antoine Winfield #2 Rolle #3 Green/Hood--that's a pretty solid secondary, especially when you throw Adub in the picture. Then we'd have Dansby, Hayes and Henderson at LB, then like a Pace/Blackstock in the 3-4. That would make our defense SOOO much better. Negotiations are done and gone, so it doesn't matter anyways.

[The Curmudgeon]

Garrard and Batch are fine if you want your QB to run the football. But Boyd can do that.
I could envision a combo deal where we traded BJ to Philly for one of their backup QBs and then traded Warner to the Vikes for a solid corner.

[Mephisto]

Many of the losses can be credited to Warner for fumbling 7 times a game. But he is a valuable backup, and without him if Leinart goes down, our season is over.

First of all Warner never fumbled 7 times in any game. Warners fumble against the Rams last year sealed a win for the Rams but in all fairness the Cards only had the ball in the first place because Bulger did the same exact thing as Warner when he fumbled. Plus as we now know Rackers was anything but money last season so who knows if he even makes the kick. If we want to blame losses on anything how about our Oline and horrible defense? Blaming Warner who outplayed Leinart isnt the answer.

I support playing Leinart as I dont think sitting him helps the cards for the future. He needs to play and like you I a m glad Warner is the backup as he is a solid backup. But showing his record and blaming him for the poor record is crazy.

That was one year, and the year that he had nagging injuries. There's a ridiculous stat. How about you look at his whole career there. He's 36-25 as the Ram's starter. I'm tellin' you, if Kurt Warner was actually winning games he wouldn't of been pulled. It doesn't matter how good or bad he's playing, if he's winning games, you stick with him.

I know it is a ridiculous stat tahts why i brought it up to combat your equally stupid stat. Leinart really changed changed our record didnt he. We couldn't stop winning once he got into the game. He was so dominant. That is why we made that big playoff run last season. :Rolleyes:

You must have been one of those osh McCown supporters. He did win when he was here afterall. He sure seemed to build on that success here with more success.

[P16]

First of all Warner never fumbled 7 times in any game.

It was obviously an exaggeration...

[thesmel]

Ok, I'm so sick of all this about BJ, we've all heard you the last 500 times. I agree with you on some things with BJ's game, but for you to say this...I just have to rip on it. :bibl:

Marvin Harrison
(Ind - WR)
Terrell Owens
(Dal - WR)
Reggie Wayne
(Ind - WR)
Donald Driver
(GB - WR)
Torry Holt
(StL - WR)
Chad Johnson
(Cin - WR)
Steve Smith
(Car - WR)
Lee Evans
(Buf - WR)
Javon Walker
(Den - WR)
Roy Williams
(Det - WR)
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
(Cin - WR)
Plaxico Burress
(NYG - WR)
Darrell Jackson
(SF - WR)
Marques Colston
(NO - WR)
Joey Galloway
(TB - WR)
Laveranues Coles
(NYJ - WR)
Andre Johnson
(Hou - WR)
Terry Glenn
(Dal - WR)
Mike Furrey
(Det - WR)
Reggie Brown
(Phi - WR)
Hines Ward
(Pit - WR)
Jerricho Cotchery
(NYJ - WR)
Braylon Edwards
(Cle - WR)
Santana Moss
(Was - WR)
Mark Clayton
(Bal - WR)
Marty Booker
(Mia - WR)
Devery Henderson
(NO - WR)
Eddie Kennison
(KC - WR)
Muhsin Muhammad
(Chi - WR)
Bernard Berrian
(Chi - WR)
Donte' Stallworth
(NE - WR)
Reche Caldwell
(NE - WR)
Deion Branch
(Sea - WR)
Santonio Holmes
(Pit - WR)
Joe Horn
(Atl - WR)
Chris Chambers
(Mia - WR)
Drew Bennett
(StL - WR)
Derrick Mason
(Bal - WR)
Vincent Jackson
(SD - WR)

--sorry that I've drifted off the subject, couldn't let this one fly though.--

I believe your a fool. If he got the looks of any these guys he'd have way more than 740 yards and 740 yards is not chicken poop. He had 4 drops last year and they were bad but it isn't like he gets many easy throws their all down the field. the next 6 years of BJ's career will be outstanding.

[WeGotTheEdge]

I believe your a fool. If he got the looks of any these guys he'd have way more than 740 yards and 740 yards is not chicken poop. He had 4 drops last year and they were bad but it isn't like he gets many easy throws their all down the field. the next 6 years of BJ's career will be outstanding.

:ok: OMG honestly, we have gone ver this so many times. You asked a simple question, I gave you a simple answer, and one that I stand by. Would you like me to break it down for you? Ok, here we go, try to stay with me.

Marvin Harrison or BJ? sorry you loose
Terrell Owens or BJ? sorry, you loose
Reggie Wayne or BJ? you still loose
Chad Johnson or BJ? why am i doing this?
Steve Smith or BJ? you definately loose
Torry Holt or BJ? you loose....again
Donald Driver or BJ? yep, you still loose
Javon Walker or BJ? :img:
(Skipping to the bottom of the list.....)
:keepontrucking:
Chris....Chambers...or BJ? fo sho
Vincent Jackson or BJ?

Bryant is a nice player to have. He's a nice deep threat, can be used as a pretty solid special teamer, and has the upside to have a break-out season. HOWEVER, he is no great #1, if he was he would be pushing Fitz/Boldin for a starting job. Sorry Snel, but I think you have a little too much confidence in BJ.

...no disrespect...:rockon:.

[emart]

if we could trade for drew bennett that would be awesome. i kinda have a mancrush on him... even though he made the poor decision to attend ucla. but, i mean, when you're young and full of stupid ideas we all do dumb things.

[lkratavil49]

Warner is happy where he is. Whis pulled him after 4 plays because he stated in the previous week that the players were going to stay in long enough to demonstrate that they were playing at the level he needed or the time he allocated was up. Warner moved the ball and scored. He got the rest of the night off. L had to stay in until he ran through his time, which was the first quarter.

I have seen every game Warner has ever played professionally, including the European games. He has been beaten up because of really poor lines. He has been utterly great when given protection and playing his game, the short fast pass over the middle or to the outside with the arena football timing. When coaches have tried to change his throwing pattern and his timing, with no line to protect him, he has had the heck kicked out of him, so he got gun shy. I would too. Get rid of the ball before having your head handed to you. In NY, I timed the avg time he had in one game to throw, and it was less than 2.1 secs from receiving the snap. You can't even sneeze in that time. One game here in AZ I made a bet with some fans and we got out my stop watch and the avg was under 2 secs!. Can you say free beer for me!

I think Whis might see his value here, and don't be surprised if you see him start a few games. If Whis was really smart, he would alternate L and W and really screw up the defense on the other side. But with our line again in doubt, I really don't want Kurt to have to start and play every game and have it kicked out of him again. I have too much respect for him and he is starting to get up there. Not that he couldn't with a great line, but he has not had one since StL won the super bowl and everybody on the line started taking off. Remember, the center came here after the SB, and that started the destruction of their line. And they had to play a new guy at that position, and that is what got his thumb hurt. No pass protection.

Let him play out his years here, play enough to win the games for us as backup (if Whis is smart and wants to win, when L is not doing too good, but in W) and not get kicked to heck. He will be able to get up and move on Monday without a lot of pain.
If you want to do some real investigation, get out your stop watch and next game post the average protection time that the qb has before being hurried or sacked the next game. See if it is the same for the 1, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th qtrs. Post it for the different qbs. If not rushed, post how long it takes to get rid of the ball. That will really help people see clearly about what helps make a qb great.

BTW, one game last year Peyton had an average of over 7 secs before he got hurried. He could take a nap, get a beer and popcorn, come back into the game, and still find a receiver.:sarcasmalert:

I had to bump this....this is the best post I have ever read on this subject. Kurt is gold, let him play some games! The line is improving, when we're sure we can protect him, let the man play.

I do not know of any team in the NFL that has a better QB situation, I think Whisenhunt knows this and will treat Kurt fairly. Let him play and mentor the kid who obviously loves him and looks up to him.

Kurt is worth every penny of his salary....and more.

[AzCardsGM]

I'd but David Garrard and Charlie Batch above Warner as well. You guys are crazy if you don't think we should bring in Antoine Winfield and/or EJ Henderson for Kurt.

That was the best laugh I had in a while.. You're serious, Charlie Batch or David Garrarg over Warner huh? OK and I love these trades.. Guys this isn't Madden!

[WeGotTheEdge]

Kurt Warner is 36 and has fumbled 66 times in his career and thrown 83 pics in only 8 years. When he has time he is MVP calibur, with out it he looks like total crap. I think in our situation with question marks on the O-line Garrard/Batch would be more effective than Warner. Batch's QB rating was 120, in 8 games he threw zero interceptions. Garrard seems like he has big play written all over him every time he touches the ball. The more important thing is payroll. Warner makes 5 mil a year, Batch makes 1.3 mil a year, Garrard makes 1.75 mil a year. No comparrison there.

:Cards logo: :Cards logo:

[pg13]

If WIZ was really his own man, Warner might have had a chance. But the fact is the organization is going to live or die with Leinart. The ONLY way Warner plays is if it's a blow out or Matt gets hurt. Matt cannot lose the job for playing poorly, not this year at least. Now if Matt goes 14-43 a few games in a row...MAYBE! But I just don't see the coach letting him get into situations like that this year. And since they didn't pull him last year for that, I really don't see it happening this year. Kurt won't play unless Matt is hurt. That's that.

[WeGotTheEdge]

If WIZ was really his own man, Warner might have had a chance. But the fact is the organization is going to live or die with Leinart. The ONLY way Warner plays is if it's a blow out or Matt gets hurt. Matt cannot lose the job for playing poorly, not this year at least. Now if Matt goes 14-43 a few games in a row...MAYBE! But I just don't see the coach letting him get into situations like that this year. And since they didn't pull him last year for that, I really don't see it happening this year. Kurt won't play unless Matt is hurt. That's that.

Yep, and with Whiz's system he won't be throwing 43 times.

[pg13]

Kurt Warner is 36 and has fumbled 66 times in his career and thrown 83 pics in only 8 years. When he has time he is MVP calibur, with out it he looks like total crap. I think in our situation with question marks on the O-line Garrard/Batch would be more effective than Warner. Batch's QB rating was 120, in 8 games he threw zero interceptions. Garrard seems like he has big play written all over him every time he touches the ball. The more important thing is payroll. Warner makes 5 mil a year, Batch makes 1.3 mil a year, Garrard makes 1.75 mil a year. No comparrison there.

:Cards logo: :Cards logo:
There is no comparison. Warner has been on two terrible teams over the last 4 years and still had a qb rating ave. of over 86. He completed 64% of his passes for 8.2 yds per pass. Batch and Garrard dream of numbers like that. In the last 3 yrs on these team he's thrown 23 tds vs 17 ints. Hardly hall of fame, but considering the teams he was playing for...Garrard and Batch would have been out of the league by now playing behind those guys. Neither is considered to be a starter, Warner should be starting, for half the teams in the league. Who should those guys be starting for?

[AzCardsGM]

Kurt Warner is 36 and has fumbled 66 times in his career and thrown 83 pics in only 8 years. When he has time he is MVP calibur, with out it he looks like total crap. I think in our situation with question marks on the O-line Garrard/Batch would be more effective than Warner. Batch's QB rating was 120, in 8 games he threw zero interceptions. Garrard seems like he has big play written all over him every time he touches the ball. The more important thing is payroll. Warner makes 5 mil a year, Batch makes 1.3 mil a year, Garrard makes 1.75 mil a year. No comparrison there.

:Cards logo: :Cards logo:

Yes you're soo right.. The fact that Batch played on Steeler team with a SOLID rune game and SOLID D and a SOLID O-Line.. You also forget that Batch is 32 also and NOT going anywhere.. You seriously would trade a former MVP and SUPER BOWL champ (STARTING superbowl champ) for a never more then a backup QB? OK.. I am glad YOU think Batch is all that.. BTW Warner has LOST 27 of those 68 fumbles.. His 83 pics have come ta the expense of throwing 2500+ times.. INt's come with throwing the ball.. Go ask Packer fans if they want to can Favre because he throws that many pics..

As far as Garrard..Well if he was all that, he probably would have led the Jag's ointo the playoffs. I mean the team was all his last year after they sat Leftwich. He was soo good his team missed the playoffs..UN-like our Kurt, he has a running game and OK not great but OK receivers..

Sooo sorry ain't buying it..BTW your QB doesn't have to be able to run the ball, just escape and get rid of the ball..That's why thye James the big $..

[pg13]

As a side note also you also neglected to mention he threw 125 tds in that span, or 42 more tds than int's. Now go look at all the great qb's that have played the game, and see how many have thrown 42 more td's than int's. You'll be quite surprised how few there are, amongst the all time greats even. Also you make 83 sound like a lot. Actually for him over his NINE year carreer it's a tick over 8 per year. Anybody would live with that. But those numbers are skewed because he's only had the 3 big years with the Rams and the rest have been marred by being pulled for various guys like Eli, Matt, Bulger, and McCowan given the chance to fail while Kurt was hurt. Outside of Bulger, who has had even a wiff of a year like the three Warner has had. Who get's 8.2 yds per pass, LIFETIME, like he does? Who completes 65% of his passes like he does? His td to int ratio is one of the best ever. This is all just fact. You don't have to love Warner to appreciate those numbers. To compare him with those guys is just silly.:wow:

[WeGotTheEdge]

Sooo sorry ain't buying it..BTW your QB doesn't have to be able to run the ball, just escape and get rid of the ball..That's why thye James the big $..

Warner can't escape and get rid of the ball, he gets hit and puts the ball on the floor every time. Batch isn't a scrambler like you all are percieving him to be. At Warner's age I think that Batch and Gerrard are definately comparible and there is NO reason what so ever that he should be making 5 Mil a year, that is just ******** ridiculous. If any of you disagree with that then you're crazy. You guys are right, Warner does have a slight "Edge" on these guys, I'm just saying they are comparrible and are making nearly one fifth of Warner's salary. They are back ups that can come in and win a game or two, unlike Warner winning one or two in his carrer with the Cards......3-12? McClown had a much better record than that.

Actually for him over his NINE year carreer it's a tick over 8 per year. Anybody would live with that.

Except for two of those years he threw the ball for a combined 42 attempts. So really the numbers are more like 12 a year, still not outrageous, but then you have to remember his problems holding on to the ball. It turns into a turnover every 20 attempts, that's pretty outrageous. I do respect Warner, he's met a lot of milestones that not many have mentioned. AFL's All-Arena first team and also led the Barnstormers to a couple Arena Bowl appearances. I also heard he once won employee of the month at the Cedar Falls Hy-Vee grocery store as a stocker.
;joker:

[azbmxican]

warner keeps losing games.

[lkratavil49]

warner keeps losing games.

I didn't know that a QB loses games all by himself....nor do they win them by themselves. :Rolleyes:

[azbmxican]

I didn't know that a QB loses games all by himself....nor do they win them by themselves. :Rolleyes:

nor does he help win them, cause his record sure doesn't show that.

[lkratavil49]

nor does he help win them, cause his record sure doesn't show that.

My darling Matty lead us down the field to win that game against the bears.....yet we lost, not because of QB play.

It's a team effort, unfortunately Kurt never had a chance to win because he had no protection - zilch, nada, all he ever had to play with was a very poor o-line.....Peyton Manning would not have faired any better.

[cardinal eric]

I don't think Warner is going anywhere.If there was anything to this rumor why didn't the Vikings address the QB spot in the draft with Quinn???I believe they think Jackson is their guy and thats why they drafted Adrian.Warner will finish out his remaining years as a Cardinal and Mentor to young LIONHEART.

[WeGotTheEdge]

My darling Matty lead us down the field to win that game against the bears.....yet we lost, not because of QB play.

It's a team effort, unfortunately Kurt never had a chance to win because he had no protection - zilch, nada, all he ever had to play with was a very poor o-line.....Peyton Manning would not have faired any better.

I don't think it's a coincidence that he is 3-12 when he starts and we are 7-10 when he sits. I have seen Warner single handedly blow games, he is so bad in the 4th quarter. Let me ask you this question. In Warner's three wins did he single handedly win games?

[P16]

I don't think it's a coincidence that he is 3-12 when he starts and we are 7-10 when he sits. I have seen Warner single handedly blow games, he is so bad in the 4th quarter. Let me ask you this question. In Warner's three wins did he single handedly win games?

I agree with this, if the O-Line was Warner's only problem why is his record as a Cardinal so much worse than any of the other QB's who have started since he's been here? It's been generally the same offensive line every year...

[pg13]

Well that's why I've been saying trade him, or better still, cut him. Then you can make a deal for Batch, Garrard or whom ever. Warner can't win here. This team is to good without him anyway, always has been. Remember all those games McCowan won when he threw fo a 100 odd yards? He was on fire. He won those games. Remember the game last year when Matt had Shipp run for 3 td's inside the 5. Matt was on fire with those plays. I mean look how many times Warner had chances to have Edge or Shipp run the ball in for a touch inside the five, and they couldn't do it. Warner couldn't get them to do it. Remember when Q fell down all be himself on a sure td, Warner again. Fitz in the SD game last year, dropping a sure td after getting both hands on it. Dang, Warner again. And in the same game Shipp nor Edge could run it in, inside the 5yd line again. Of course Warner caused that. That's why I've been saying trade him. He can't win! You're right he can't win.:garfield:

[Mephisto]

Warner is a solid backup. We are lucky to have him. We havent won with Leinart, guess its time to get rid of him. Haven't won with Edge, send him out. Havent won with Boldin and Fitz, guess we need to get rid of them too.............may as well just scrap the franchise and have 31 teams in the NFL.

[P16]

Warner is a solid backup. We are lucky to have him. We havent won with Leinart, guess its time to get rid of him. Haven't won with Edge, send him out. Havent won with Boldin and Fitz, guess we need to get rid of them too.............may as well just scrap the franchise and have 31 teams in the NFL.

That makes no sense. QB is the only position in the NFL that gets judged on winning percentage, so talking about Boldin, Fitz, or Edge is nonsense. Leinart got 12 starts last year, and won 4 games as a rookie. That's more than Warner's won in the 2 years he's been here, and he's a vet. Enough said. He may be a solid backup, and I will admit he should get a ton of credit for Leinart coming along as fast as he has, but I will never trust Warner as a starter here. If we extend his contract another 2 years, I'll be pissed. Pay him as a coach after his contracts up, that's all he's going to be here for.

[Vegas Cards Fan]

I'm so proud of this topic. Almost 4,000 views. Corny I know, but I'm proud none the less.

[misty]

Add to the rumour mill, Andrew Walter or former Cardinal Josh McCown to Atlanta.

[pg13]

That makes no sense. QB is the only position in the NFL that gets judged on winning percentage, so talking about Boldin, Fitz, or Edge is nonsense. Leinart got 12 starts last year, and won 4 games as a rookie. That's more than Warner's won in the 2 years he's been here, and he's a vet. Enough said. He may be a solid backup, and I will admit he should get a ton of credit for Leinart coming along as fast as he has, but I will never trust Warner as a starter here. If we extend his contract another 2 years, I'll be pissed. Pay him as a coach after his contracts up, that's all he's going to be here for.

That's why I too would agree that every screw up by every other player and coach on the team would be Warners fault when he was playing. Let's see: Warner throws a td, it's called back because of a holding. Hmmm, his fault, of course. Can't run the ball 2yds for a td on 4 tries. Him his fault. Pulling guard runs into him as he pulls away from center causing fumble, his fault. Receiver drops td pass in endzone on two consective plays his fault. TE catches td pass with no one around him for 20 yds, called back because another receiver blocks somebody in the back who's no where near the play. Yep, Warner's fault. False start, Warner's fault. Warner td pass puts us in the lead, very next play ST's allows kick off return for td, dang that Warner. Geeze, how does one guy manage to make so many bad plays. I mean Edge came in here averaging over 4.3 per carry and some how Warner just manages to make him into a guy who can barely get 3.2. Of couse his ablity to get 8.2 yds per pass and complete 64.3% of them is due to all the stellar play by the rest of the team. Yeah, I'm with you, I don't trust as a starter.:eek:

[PV1949]

Lets quit beating a dead horse. Warner is here until he retires. Lets get rid of the terrible running backs that we have, James and JJ Arington. Those people who say that its Warner's fault and not the O-line should stand behind this idea. Its not the O line, but the running backs. Edge is terrible and his numbers keep getting worse. At least

Warner's are going up.

[TGarel]

Actually 17 Starting QBs in the NFL played all 16 games for their respective teams.

Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Marc Bulger
David Carr
Brett Favre
Rex Grossman
John Kitna
J.P. Lossman
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Steve McNair
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo (He played in all 16 but only started 10)
Alex Smith
Michael Vick

...

[pg13]

Actually 17 Starting QBs in the NFL played all 16 games for their respective teams.

Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Marc Bulger
David Carr
Brett Favre
Rex Grossman
John Kitna
J.P. Lossman
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Steve McNair
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo (He played in all 16 but only started 10)
Alex Smith
Michael Vick

...
But this leave off all the teams that did, including AZ who's yonger, faster, stronger rookie got hurt in only ten games.

[TGarel]

I didnt leave them off.. he said to name one that played all 16 games.. i named 17..

[Mephisto]

That makes no sense. QB is the only position in the NFL that gets judged on winning percentage, so talking about Boldin, Fitz, or Edge is nonsense. Leinart got 12 starts last year, and won 4 games as a rookie. That's more than Warner's won in the 2 years he's been here, and he's a vet. Enough said. He may be a solid backup, and I will admit he should get a ton of credit for Leinart coming along as fast as he has, but I will never trust Warner as a starter here. If we extend his contract another 2 years, I'll be pissed. Pay him as a coach after his contracts up, that's all he's going to be here for.

You are correct it makes no sense. Was supposed to be a joke making fun of the people who think Warner isn't good. He is better than Leinart. I think Leinart should start because he is only going to improve as a starter, but Warner is in fact a better QB. Whether you trust him or not becasue of a couple bad games is your problem. Not his fault the oline stinks and we cant run the ball, and our defense is terrible. He only plays one position, and he plays it fairly well.

[PV1949]

You are correct it makes no sense. Was supposed to be a joke making fun of the people who think Warner isn't good. He is better than Leinart. I think Leinart should start because he is only going to improve as a starter, but Warner is in fact a better QB. Whether you trust him or not becasue of a couple bad games is your problem. Not his fault the oline stinks and we cant run the ball, and our defense is terrible. He only plays one position, and he plays it fairly well.

M..totally agree, but some people on this board don't get the sarcasm...Using their logic against them goes right over their head. I started saying that our runners are terrible, because I knew it would draw criticism about the line not being good and giving them the running room. So they jump up and defend the runners. Yet these same people criticize warner for fumbling and not posting numbers....hmmmm...same O line for both....maybe the same problem....Just something to ponder for their wittle brains......

Now that we have a chance at an O line it is really really really thin. We might have 5 that can start, but after that we are back in the same fix...


Get some TE's that can help in blocking and receiving.....at the SAME time...Defenses know when we have either a blocker or receiver in there, and can adjust their coverage.....

[Darth Llama]

M..totally agree, but some people on this board don't get the sarcasm...Using their logic against them goes right over their head. I started saying that our runners are terrible, because I knew it would draw criticism about the line not being good and giving them the running room. So they jump up and defend the runners. Yet these same people criticize warner for fumbling and not posting numbers....hmmmm...same O line for both....maybe the same problem....Just something to ponder for their wittle brains......

Now that we have a chance at an O line it is really really really thin. We might have 5 that can start, but after that we are back in the same fix...


Get some TE's that can help in blocking and receiving.....at the SAME time...Defenses know when we have either a blocker or receiver in there, and can adjust their coverage.....

In all fairness though, a line can excel in pass blocking and still be very poor at opening up the run. I think most of last year our line was fairly efficient in pass blocking, the problem was that they couldn't open holes for the running game. It is possible to make a logical argument that an O-Line is responsible for a Running Backs woes, but not the QB's.

I think Kurt was partially victimized by our line sure, but some were his own mistakes as well. Same with Matt Leinart.

[P16]

You are correct it makes no sense. Was supposed to be a joke making fun of the people who think Warner isn't good. He is better than Leinart. I think Leinart should start because he is only going to improve as a starter, but Warner is in fact a better QB. Whether you trust him or not becasue of a couple bad games is your problem. Not his fault the oline stinks and we cant run the ball, and our defense is terrible. He only plays one position, and he plays it fairly well.

If Warner is the better QB, then how did Leinart win more games as a rookie? We had the same team the whole year, Warner and Leinart played with the same players, behind the same line, and yet, Leinart won more games..

[kjbad]

If Warner is the better QB, then how did Leinart win more games as a rookie? We had the same team the whole year, Warner and Leinart played with the same players, behind the same line, and yet, Leinart won more games..

If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit...

[cardinal eric]

Leinart is the better QB...enough said.Warner is great for us in his role and I don't believe he'll be traded anywhere...certainly not to remain in a back-up role in another town.IF he is traded it'll be to become a starter somewhere.

[Mephisto]

M..totally agree, but some people on this board don't get the sarcasm...Using their logic against them goes right over their head. I started saying that our runners are terrible, because I knew it would draw criticism about the line not being good and giving them the running room. So they jump up and defend the runners. Yet these same people criticize warner for fumbling and not posting numbers....hmmmm...same O line for both....maybe the same problem....Just something to ponder for their wittle brains......

Now that we have a chance at an O line it is really really really thin. We might have 5 that can start, but after that we are back in the same fix...


Get some TE's that can help in blocking and receiving.....at the SAME time...Defenses know when we have either a blocker or receiver in there, and can adjust their coverage.....


When people bring up McCown and his record it just kills me though. As you can see, teams are just lining up to get McCown. He was a backup to Kitna and looks like he will once again be a backup, this time in Oakland.

Rams had a better record without bulger in 2005. Guess they didnt need him. :Rolleyes:

It amazes me that there are so many Warner bashers. I am glad he is our #2 QB. If Leinart is injured I am comfortable with Warner. He is only a good QB and a great person, let's all bash him............... :Rolleyes:

[P16]

When people bring up McCown and his record it just kills me though. As you can see, teams are just lining up to get McCown. He was a backup to Kitna and looks like he will once again be a backup, this time in Oakland.

Rams had a better record without bulger in 2005. Guess they didnt need him. :Rolleyes:

It amazes me that there are so many Warner bashers. I am glad he is our #2 QB. If Leinart is injured I am comfortable with Warner. He is only a good QB and a great person, let's all bash him............... :Rolleyes:

Yes, McCown was a backup QB in Detroit, and might be in Oakland. But please, tell me, how many games has Warner started in that exact same span? 4 more than McCown? If you're simply bashing McCown, sure I agree with you, he probably won't be more than a backup in this league, but if you're trying to make a point that Warner's a better QB because McCown has been a backup since he left, you make no sense.

And for the record, I'm not bashing Warner. I think he's a fine backup this year, and probably next year also. But he's not better than Leinart, and never proved he was better than McCown.

[Mephisto]

If Warner is the better QB, then how did Leinart win more games as a rookie? We had the same team the whole year, Warner and Leinart played with the same players, behind the same line, and yet, Leinart won more games..


Well one obvious reason is Leinart played more games!

So you could also say Leinart Lost more games than Warner. Had the same team the whole year, same players, same line, and yet Leinart Lost more games. Again Leinart played more games, so isnt so surprising and isnt such a meaningful stat.

Warner had a better QB rating. Guess you chose to ignore that? We won more games with Leinart but they weren't necessairly won because of Leinart. Like the Seattle game when Seattle fumbled 3 times in the first half, essentially giving us points.

Warner is a better QB. He is more experienced and can simply read defenses better. comes with experience.

[Mephisto]

Yes, McCown was a backup QB in Detroit, and might be in Oakland. But please, tell me, how many games has Warner started in that exact same span? 4 more than McCown? If you're simply bashing McCown, sure I agree with you, he probably won't be more than a backup in this league, but if you're trying to make a point that Warner's a better QB because McCown has been a backup since he left, you make no sense.

And for the record, I'm not bashing Warner. I think he's a fine backup this year, and probably next year also. But he's not better than Leinart, and never proved he was better than McCown.

if you dont think Warner is better than McCown then there is just no hope for you to ever have a clue.

[DUSK884]

winning the superbowl is obviously overrated

:ha:

[pg13]

The thing that is never being addressed here is how bad other parts of the team was playing when Warner started last year, and truthfully the year before.

Sure, you can look to wins and losses, and hang it on him, but then how come everyone from Q to Fitz, to the oline the D, the CB's, the ST's all get a pass. You never mention them at all? What they didn't play.

In a few of my post I've just pointed out the barest few " low lights" and except for the poster who pointed out we got three turnovers by Seattle that lead to points, no one points out the horrible play or plays the others made while Warner was at qb that cost us scores, big yardage, or momentum. He's leading the offense, but he's not playing every position on the team, or coaching it.

If his 11-20 was reason enough for being pulled in Atlanta last year, why wasn't Edge pulled for his 3.2 yds per carry? His numbers were .1 percentage point better than JJ's the year before. If they couldn't block for Edge in those first 5 games, what makes you think they were blocking for Warner. Yet, he was still completing over 60% of his passes for over 7yds per play at the time. What that tells you is he's doing his job in spite of how poorly the rest of the team was doing theirs.

But none of this means anything anyway. Matt is going to be the QB come game 1 regardless. So talking about all this is silly really. But the fact remains, your qb can only be as good as the rest of your team plays. Warner's numbers show he played well. Look at the rest of the team and tell me how they played.

[Keenum]

If Leinart was playing on the team that Warner was on two years, ago, he'd of probably gotten injured as well and done much worse. It DOES NOT MATTER WHO THE QB IS IF THE TEAM IS HORRIBLE, as has been the case for the past few years.
Go ahead and take your stud WRs, an MVP caliber RB, and either a good young QB or a seasoned vet, who gives a fart if the O-LINE CAN NOT BLOCK ANYBODY!?

Marino, Warner, Manning (both of them), Montana, Unitas, none of those guys could play good football behind the O-line consistantly. Once the O-line comes together, the other pieces will fall in.

[WeGotTheEdge]

That's why I too would agree that every screw up by every other player and coach on the team would be Warners fault when he was playing. Let's see: Warner throws a td, it's called back because of a holding. Hmmm, his fault, of course. Can't run the ball 2yds for a td on 4 tries. Him his fault. Pulling guard runs into him as he pulls away from center causing fumble, his fault. Receiver drops td pass in endzone on two consective plays his fault. TE catches td pass with no one around him for 20 yds, called back because another receiver blocks somebody in the back who's no where near the play. Yep, Warner's fault. False start, Warner's fault. Warner td pass puts us in the lead, very next play ST's allows kick off return for td, dang that Warner. Geeze, how does one guy manage to make so many bad plays. I mean Edge came in here averaging over 4.3 per carry and some how Warner just manages to make him into a guy who can barely get 3.2. Of couse his ablity to get 8.2 yds per pass and complete 64.3% of them is due to all the stellar play by the rest of the team. Yeah, I'm with you, I don't trust as a starter.:eek:

Hell, I'm really starting to think that our players under-performing while he is in the game and it IS his fault. Why doesn't any of this happen nearly as mutch when he's on the sidelines? Maybe it's because he has terrible leadership? idk, but when Warner is in it seems to me like EVERYTHING goes wrong. From him wasting timeouts early in the game and having that bite us in the *** on our 4th quarter 2 min drives, to him fumbling the ball when all we have to do is kneel it out, to other guys playing like crap when he is in there.

When Warner sits there's no new, better players coming in and the shitty players come out or something. It's the same players with the same athleticism and ability. I truly have never seen Warner take this team as his and become a leader. I've never seen him yell at someone for doing something stupid, or go and do a little congragulatory head but to Fitz after he makes a sick catch in the back of the endzone. I saw this from when McCown was hear and I saw this from Leinart last year, and guess what, they have better records and everyone seems to play better around these guys.

[PV1949]

First, Kurt does have better numbers than Leinhart, so on that, he should be starting. However, being the class act that he is, he also realizes that the coach wants to play him (Leinhart) for the future (or has been sold on this by the Green dream or the Bidwells, whatever, he has to politically play him) and did not moan, cry or jump up and down, but has done nothing but support the kid. Leinahrt even states that Kurt is his idol and he is learning football and life lessons from him.

Kurt has not had the luck that other qbs have had, and has earned every inch and dollar that he gets. He really tries to do the right thing. He is a first rate act that is a role model for our young kids. He is not Hollywood that young kids like pg16 adore. He is unflashly down to earth. He takes his job very seriously. He is a role model to the whole team, that is why he doesn't yell at the players or get mad, he talks to them and explains what the situation calls for or what he expects of them. The only time I saw him get mad is last year when the front line wasn't even blocking and he could only get the snap before a lineman was in his face.

The coaches here see a lot in him, and Whis does not want to see Kurt on the other side of the line trying to score against him. Whis has a lot of respect for him. He sees a need for him. I am sure he is getting pressure from the Bidwells about his salary, but is standing strong. But then, the Bidwells only make a half effort to win that appease the fans so they keep putting money in their pocket. Tactics dictate that you keep the best players on your team so you don't face them as opponents, and it gives you best chance to win. This has finally dawned on the owners of the New England franchise and they are now supporting Brady by getting the good players back to support him. It is going to be harder for Peyton this year because his team let several of the important players go that supported him and gave him the protection he needed.

We heard the same arguments about Kurt and Eli when he was at the Giants, Eli was going to be the franchise, start him now, he will take them to the Super Bowl soon, and look how miserable his numbers turned out to be. Kurt is consistently in the top ten, even with a terrrible line. And now Barber is snipping at Eli, and everybody is starting to call for Coughlin's head on a platter. Had Coughlin been smart, he would have kept Kurt and brought Eli along slower. But the owner's put pressure on him also. They had a terrible line and from fear of losing their qb, they finally started building a line to protect him. That is the problem with Kurt. He posts great numbers, he is experienced, he is suave. So the coach thinks he can bring the team along by himself and negelects the protection for him. It happened to him in St Louis, in New York, and then here. But that is a fallacy, Kurt, and other qbs are only as good as the supporting cast. Ask Peyton, who has been in this league a really long time, and finally got his SB ring, after all of these years and with great stats. Ask Brady, same thing. When he lost key players and they did not replace them, they did not make it back as SB winners. Ask Brett Favre. And remember, if you don't win the SB ring, then the season doesn't really matter. It is practice for next year. It takes a team to win the SB, not an individual player. You might be a great actor, but the play had better have some substance, and you have a good supporting cast to win the Tony.

At any rate, we should see a glimpse of the season today with the first two quarters of this game, except that Tomlinson is not playing. That is a big difference. Go Cards

[PV1949]

Hell, I'm really starting to think that our players under-performing while he is in the game and it IS his fault. Why doesn't any of this happen nearly as mutch when he's on the sidelines? Maybe it's because he has terrible leadership? idk, but when Warner is in it seems to me like EVERYTHING goes wrong. From him wasting timeouts early in the game and having that bite us in the *** on our 4th quarter 2 min drives, to him fumbling the ball when all we have to do is kneel it out, to other guys playing like crap when he is in there.

When Warner sits there's no new, better players coming in and the shitty players come out or something. It's the same players with the same athleticism and ability. I truly have never seen Warner take this team as his and become a leader. I've never seen him yell at someone for doing something stupid, or go and do a little congragulatory head but to Fitz after he makes a sick catch in the back of the endzone. I saw this from when McCown was hear and I saw this from Leinart last year, and guess what, they have better records and everyone seems to play better around these guys.


Using this logic (or lack of) then we should get rid of James ( his numbers have gone down seriously, get rid of some of our receivers, and get rid of Rolle, get rid or Arrington, etc..) hell get rid of the whole team. Get rid of Leinhart also, because his numbers were not as good as Kurts. In fact Kurts numbers this year are far superior to Leinharts, so the players must be responding to Kurt far better than Leinhart.

[lkratavil49]

You know, I don't disagree with alot of what the Warner fans have to say......but it is disrespectful to continually misspell Matt's name....it is spelled LEINART! :garfield:

I may be an out of state fan, but I found out the hard way last year that the owner's name is spelled BIDWILL.

Geesh. :lollollol:

[PV1949]

You know, I don't disagree with alot of what the Warner fans have to say......but it is disrespectful to continually misspell Matt's name....it is spelled LEINART! :garfield:

I may be an out of state fan, but I found out the hard way last year that the owner's name is spelled BIDWILL.

Geesh. :lollollol:

We play with Leinhart because it sounds like (lion-heart), a great big roaring lion. That is what he is to us. What is lion-art? a Paris artist? No, our guy is a lion's heart...just ask his girl friends...

Also, Bidwell is because he bids very well. He is always looking for deals and usually gets the best of the trade (for him).

It is a little nuance on the names that people like to play with and show some rebellion. So excuse me for the slight intentional misspelling of their names to emphasize what I think is a play on their names...its subliminal...

[pg13]

McCowan probably doesn't even beat out Walters for the #2 spot on the Raiders. That's a joke. Warner better than Leinart? You're kidding right. Warner has a life time 8.2 yds per pass. 65% completions. 42 more td's than int's. Last years qb rating put him in the top 9. Superbowl winner, two time league mvp, and you compare him to McCowan and Leinart?:wiggum:

[WeGotTheEdge]

Using this logic (or lack of) then we should get rid of James ( his numbers have gone down seriously, get rid of some of our receivers, and get rid of Rolle, get rid or Arrington, etc..) hell get rid of the whole team. Get rid of Leinhart also, because his numbers were not as good as Kurts. In fact Kurts numbers this year are far superior to Leinharts, so the players must be responding to Kurt far better than Leinhart.

OK, PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU CARE ABOUT MORE? SOME STUPID INDIVIDUAL STATS OR OUR RECORD??!!

I DON't GIVE A FLYING CRAP ABOUT WARNER'S STATS WHEN HE WAS WITH THE RAMS AND POSSIBLY THE BEST OFFENSE AROUND HIM IN NFL HISTORY, I DON'T GIVE A ****!!

It's THIS simple, Warner - 3-12....EVERYONE ELSE (ROOKIE/BACKUP QB LAST 2 YEARS FOR 2 TEAMS THAT ARE ACTUALLY WORSE THAN US!!!!) 7-10....

What else do you need to see? It has happened since the 05 season, Warner has consistently lost. Don't you tihnk that after 15 games, maybe it's not everyone else's fault? after 12 losses and continuos poor play that it might not be a fluke? I mean come one, 12 games! 7-10 is not too bad for a rook and McCown, if Warner was sooooo good like his stats show, why can't he win a **** football game to save his life? Stop blaming it on everyone BUT Warner.

[WeGotTheEdge]

Using this logic (or lack of) then we should get rid of James ( his numbers have gone down seriously, get rid of some of our receivers, and get rid of Rolle, get rid or Arrington, etc..) hell get rid of the whole team. Get rid of Leinhart also, because his numbers were not as good as Kurts. In fact Kurts numbers this year are far superior to Leinharts, so the players must be responding to Kurt far better than Leinhart.

I don't know what you are talking about when you say "this logic." All I said was that it seems to me that Warner has terrible leadership qualities, and that is something that is a MUST at the QB position.

[pg13]

OK, PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU CARE ABOUT MORE? SOME STUPID INDIVIDUAL STATS OR OUR RECORD??!!

I DON't GIVE A FLYING CRAP ABOUT WARNER'S STATS WHEN HE WAS WITH THE RAMS AND POSSIBLY THE BEST OFFENSE AROUND HIM IN NFL HISTORY, I DON'T GIVE A ****!!

It's THIS simple, Warner - 3-12....EVERYONE ELSE (ROOKIE/BACKUP QB LAST 2 YEARS FOR 2 TEAMS THAT ARE ACTUALLY WORSE THAN US!!!!) 7-10....

What else do you need to see? It has happened since the 05 season, Warner has consistently lost. Don't you tihnk that after 15 games, maybe it's not everyone else's fault? after 12 losses and continuos poor play that it might not be a fluke? I mean come one, 12 games! 7-10 is not too bad for a rook and McCown, if Warner was sooooo good like his stats show, why can't he win a **** football game to save his life? Stop blaming it on everyone BUT Warner.

Okay...I'm going to make this simple. Warner does not play every position on the field. He doesn't play D, he doesn't play ST's, he doesn't rush the ball, block, or even catch it. If everyone on the team was playing to his level of play, this team would be winning. It's not the stats, it's the level of play. The stats only tell you what that level is. And in truth they don't tell the whole story, because his stats are in spite of the poor play of others on the team, not because of their stellar play. It's been said over and again if he had protection, if we could run the ball, if we'd just stop making stupid drive killing penalties. In him that produced the 9th best qb rating in the league last year. Those are just the facts. As a side note to stop blaming everone but Warner, how about you stop blaming Warner for everything.:wiggum:

[WeGotTheEdge]

It's been said over and again if he had protection, if we could run the ball, if we'd just stop making stupid drive killing penalties. In him that produced the 9th best qb rating in the league last year. Those are just the facts. As a side note to stop blaming everone but Warner, how about you stop blaming Warner for everything.:wiggum:

And all this changed while he was on the bench? If everyone plays better without him than why should he be played? Why should I stop blaming Warner? When he is not playing we win WAY more often. HE IS OBVIOUSLY CONTRIBUTING TO OUR LOSES.

[pg13]

And all this changed while he was on the bench? If everyone plays better without him than why should he be played? Why should I stop blaming Warner? When he is not playing we win WAY more often. HE IS OBVIOUSLY CONTRIBUTING TO OUR LOSES.

You make my point again. That's why I say we should trade him, or cut him, he's obviously bad for the team. Tonight for instense, first play he get's striped, I mean why wasn't he blocking better when he took the snap? He took three steps and the pro bowl alternate was in him helmet. Oh yeah, that perfect pass to Fizt, why did he cause him to drop that? That he was what, 6-7 for 70 some yards and guided them to a touch, why's he always screwing up like that? I say cut him loose now, it's the only thing that makes sense. Who could use a guy that's completed 15-18 passes in the pre season for over 10yds per pass and 3 scores. He's done, even I can see that!:nelson:

[Mephisto]

Hell, I'm really starting to think that our players under-performing while he is in the game and it IS his fault. Why doesn't any of this happen nearly as mutch when he's on the sidelines? Maybe it's because he has terrible leadership? idk, but when Warner is in it seems to me like EVERYTHING goes wrong. From him wasting timeouts early in the game and having that bite us in the *** on our 4th quarter 2 min drives, to him fumbling the ball when all we have to do is kneel it out, to other guys playing like crap when he is in there.

When Warner sits there's no new, better players coming in and the shitty players come out or something. It's the same players with the same athleticism and ability. I truly have never seen Warner take this team as his and become a leader. I've never seen him yell at someone for doing something stupid, or go and do a little congragulatory head but to Fitz after he makes a sick catch in the back of the endzone. I saw this from when McCown was hear and I saw this from Leinart last year, and guess what, they have better records and everyone seems to play better around these guys.


Appaerently you missed the games Leinart played in. Biggest obvious game was the bears game last season. Everything went to hell with Leinart in such a HUGE way it was nearly unbelievable to anyone except cards fans who knew it could ahppen at any time with this organization. has diddly squat to do with warner. This team melts down all the time regardless of the QB becasue thats what this team is, a team that cant finish. KC game also comes to mind, Leinart the QB and team cant finish. Just how it is. Funny how if warner is QB all the blame goes to warner, yet when matt loses we don't hear the same stuff.

If you like Leinart or dont like warner as a starter its fine, but at least give them the even analysis.

If Warner had QB'd the bears game we would hear all about how the team goes to heck with him as QB, but since it was leinart we dont hear anything............doesnt seem fair to me.

[WeGotTheEdge]

If you like Leinart or dont like warner as a starter its fine, but at least give them the even analysis.

If Warner had QB'd the bears game we would hear all about how the team goes to heck with him as QB, but since it was leinart we dont hear anything............doesnt seem fair to me.

Even Analysis? Leinart in his ROOKIE year won more games than Warner has in his 2 seasons as a Card. That's pretty pathetic, a rookie? Come on now, If Warner had been in the Bears game it would have been over in the first quarter. No, I can't say that and you can't say he would've won. I'm not gonna say that Leinart didn't blew a few of those games, he definately contributed to it. However, he is a rookie and our future, he does get a little more lee-way than Kurt does. Leinart has looked unbelievable in preseason, like a true veteran and a leader. Im done talking about a washed up QB in Warner, it's just gotten REALLLLLY old. I'm talking about Leinart from now on, and I'd advise all of you to do the same. We're talking more about our back-up than how crazy Leinart is looking.

:cardinals:

[dfront]

I'm talking about Leinart from now on, and I'd advise all of you to do the same.

What, are you going to put a hit out on us if we don't? I don't know about you guys, but I'm scared!

[PV1949]

Even Analysis? Leinart in his ROOKIE year won more games than Warner has in his 2 seasons as a Card. That's pretty pathetic, a rookie? Come on now, If Warner had been in the Bears game it would have been over in the first quarter. No, I can't say that and you can't say he would've won. I'm not gonna say that Leinart didn't blew a few of those games, he definately contributed to it. However, he is a rookie and our future, he does get a little more lee-way than Kurt does. Leinart has looked unbelievable in preseason, like a true veteran and a leader. Im done talking about a washed up QB in Warner, it's just gotten REALLLLLY old. I'm talking about Leinart from now on, and I'd advise all of you to do the same. We're talking more about our back-up than how crazy Leinart is looking.

:cardinals:

yeah, Leinart looked unbelievable. He stunk in the first two games. This one he finally did what he does well, that is scramble.

Get a life, we know you hate Warner for whatever reason and you sniff Leinart's jock. Give it a break. Matt was lucky his receivers knew what to do after the play broke down and he left the pocket. He did not look that sharp in the pocket. They killed us on first downs when he was in, they killed us on running when he was in. If you look at the qb ratings, Kurt Warner is again number 1 in the NFL, while Leinart is number 10. And quit throwing those stupid stats about Leinart winning more games than Kurt. He started most of the games. That is why. Here is a stat. Green won more games here than Whisenhut...

[lkratavil49]

yeah, Leinart looked unbelievable. He stunk in the first two games. This one he finally did what he does well, that is scramble.

Get a life, we know you hate Warner for whatever reason and you sniff Leinart's jock. Give it a break. Matt was lucky his receivers knew what to do after the play broke down and he left the pocket. He did not look that sharp in the pocket. They killed us on first downs when he was in, they killed us on running when he was in. If you look at the qb ratings, Kurt Warner is again number 1 in the NFL, while Leinart is number 10. And quit throwing those stupid stats about Leinart winning more games than Kurt. He started most of the games. That is why. Here is a stat. Green won more games here than Whisenhut...

Gunny, is that you? If so, act like a man and show yourself for who you are. :Thumbdown:

[PV1949]

Gunny and rarely agree..and I haven't heard from him for quite awhile...Is he the same one that trailed here from the giants?

[thesmel]

Matt's Cody is our future Cardinal General Manager and Matt has been responsible and basically Cardinaled up for his boy.
Kurt has alot of kids and family wisdom to share with the rookie and it's a pleasure to see Matt listen and execute off the field.

I respect Kurt's drive to get better after losing the job to Matt last year, He searched out people even the rookie with answers listened and executed.

If Peyton Manning went down in the opener Kurt would be their best option to return to the Super Bowl.

We actually have a pocket developing for a pocket QB
Kurt could lead the Cards to their best season with that pocket.

We are blessed to have back ups, that can not only play NFL football at it's highest level but lead from the bench

and I include BJ and Francisco in that area.

all that they ask is for us to Fan

[thesmel]

I'm talking about Leinart from now on, and I'd advise all of you to do the same.

What, are you going to put a hit out on us if we don't? I don't know about you guys, but I'm scared!

don't bogart that Kool aid my friend
Save it to the very end!

I want a hit man

[lkratavil49]

Gunny and rarely agree..and I haven't heard from him for quite awhile...Is he the same one that trailed here from the giants?

Liar.

[Mephisto]

Even Analysis? Leinart in his ROOKIE year won more games than Warner has in his 2 seasons as a Card. That's pretty pathetic, a rookie? Come on now, If Warner had been in the Bears game it would have been over in the first quarter. No, I can't say that and you can't say he would've won. I'm not gonna say that Leinart didn't blew a few of those games, he definately contributed to it. However, he is a rookie and our future, he does get a little more lee-way than Kurt does. Leinart has looked unbelievable in preseason, like a true veteran and a leader. Im done talking about a washed up QB in Warner, it's just gotten REALLLLLY old. I'm talking about Leinart from now on, and I'd advise all of you to do the same. We're talking more about our back-up than how crazy Leinart is looking.

:cardinals:

So you got busted on your own analysis so now you run and hide? I never said Warner would have beaten the Bears. You say the team plays poorly with Warner at the helm, well Leinart was at the helm of a monumental breakdown. Bigger breakdown of a team than I have seen since the Oilers blew that game against the Bills.

Leinart has played well in the preseason. You know what other cardinal QB played well all preseason? Warner. Guess we just ignore that. Warner doing well doesn't fit into your agenda, so you ignore those facts.

Warner and Leinart each played in 4 wins. Warner ahs played only 4 more games than Leinart, both have losing records.

Warner has a better QB rating by far. Warner is still the better QB. Only thing we can agree on is Leinart should start as he is the future of the franchise.

Just stop raggin on Warner. We get it. You hate Warner. What a news flash.

[WeGotTheEdge]

So you got busted on your own analysis so now you run and hide? I never said Warner would have beaten the Bears. You say the team plays poorly with Warner at the helm, well Leinart was at the helm of a monumental breakdown. Bigger breakdown of a team than I have seen since the Oilers blew that game against the Bills.

Leinart has played well in the preseason. You know what other cardinal QB played well all preseason? Warner. Guess we just ignore that. Warner doing well doesn't fit into your agenda, so you ignore those facts.

Warner and Leinart each played in 4 wins. Warner ahs played only 4 more games than Leinart, both have losing records.

Warner has a better QB rating by far. Warner is still the better QB. Only thing we can agree on is Leinart should start as he is the future of the franchise.

Just stop raggin on Warner. We get it. You hate Warner. What a news flash.

I've always hated Warner, if you guys can't tell. I know he has accomplished many things, and I believe he is one of the best back-ups in the current game. He should not be recieving 5 mil a year though and I just can't get over his terrible record as a Card. When Whiz came to AZ he repeatedly said "The best players will play." Leinart ahead of Warner.


P.S. I was just messin' when I said the "advise" line or whatever. Chillax bro

[Mephisto]

I've always hated Warner, if you guys can't tell. I know he has accomplished many things, and I believe he is one of the best back-ups in the current game. He should not be recieving 5 mil a year though and I just can't get over his terrible record as a Card. When Whiz came to AZ he repeatedly said "The best players will play." Leinart ahead of Warner.


P.S. I was just messin' when I said the "advise" line or whatever. Chillax bro

Pretty sure the best players will play thing doesnt apply to the QB. You cant draft a guy in the 1st round at QB to be the QB for the next decade and not play him. Just like Edge. If Edge wasnt the best it wouldnt matter because you don't sit a guy we went out to get to be THE GUY at Rb and play Shipp or someone instead though clearly thru the preseason every RB we have has outplayed Edge.

I am not saying play Warner I just dont understand the hatred towards a guy who is by every account a really good person, a good teacher and mentor who embraced the backup role which many QB's would not have done and tried to force a trade. We are lucky to have Warner. As for the 5 mil, you are right but we never knew we would be in position to draft Leinart at 10 in last years draft either. If he wasn't there the cards likely wouldn't have drafted a QB in the 1st round. Warner is only a backup because so many teams passed on Leinart.