Favre Forces Packers Hand, Faxes Re-Instatement Form to NFL Brass

[KidStallyn]

Source: Favre forces Packers' hand, files for reinstatement

ESPN.com news services

Updated: July 29, 2008, 4:48 PM ET

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Consider the Packers backed up against their own goal line.

Brett Favre followed through on his statements that he wanted to come out of retirement by faxing his reinstatement letter to the NFL on Tuesday, a source close to the quarterback told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Favre's actions now force Packers general manager Ted Thompson to make a decision. Favre told Mortensen on Sunday that the GM had pleaded with the quarterback not to show up at camp on Sunday, so that the situation could be resolved.

"I asked Ted [Saturday], 'Am I welcome in the building if I report?' And Ted was just about shattered," Favre said. "He said, 'Brett, you can't do that -- you'll get me fired.' I told him I'm not trying to get anybody fired. So Ted asked me to let the guys report and let's try to resolve this over the next two or three days."

With no concrete movement in the past few days, Favre made his move. The Packers have publicly committed to Favre's backup from last season, Aaron Rodgers, however.

Favre has offered to compete for the starting job in training camp, but he said in Sunday's interview that he was told that is not an option.

"It's pretty clear -- and this is what I told the commissioner -- that they want me to go away, stay retired," Favre said.

The Packers have also looked into trading their former franchise quarterback, but nothing tangible has happened on that front either.

Favre retired in March after 16 season in the league as the all-time leader in touchdown passes with 442.

Chris Mortensen covers the NFL for ESPN.

[kjbad]

GB, the ball's in your court now...jerking around Ryan Grant and not letting Brett Favre start, what a wonderful off-season.

[Cardz81]

This is going to be interesting!

[NinjaMonkey]

just let the man play football if your not guna start him or at least let him compete then trade him or release him...

[NightHawk11and81]

GB, the ball's in your court now...jerking around Ryan Grant and not letting Brett Favre start, what a wonderful off-season.

Grant is a bad one for the Packers' front office. Favre is just being a *****.

[Tiz]

Call me when he shows up to TC

[footballfamilyguy]

front office is right in both cases... just got off phone with a buddy who thinks i am crazy... but, i am right and he is wrong..lol....

[Tiz]

front office is right in both cases... just got off phone with a buddy who thinks i am crazy... but, i am right and he is wrong..lol....

I agree. You can't keep both Favre and Rodgers

[Lomax 2 Green]

just let the man play football if your not guna start him or at least let him compete then trade him or release him...

I agree. If the Packers insist on "moving on" without Favre why would they care where he plays? I think their "we dont want you to play for us but we also dont want you to play for anybody else" attitude is ridiculous. If they did want him back they wouldn't keep telling him not to report in.

[LD14]

God this will never end, just trade him already or put him as the back up. They should of ended this drama a month ago instead of allowing it to be a distraction for Rodgers and the team

[LD14]

I agree. If the Packers insist on "moving on" without Favre why would they care where he plays? I think their "we dont want you to play for us but we also dont want you to play for anybody else" attitude is ridiculous. If they did want him back they wouldn't keep telling him not to report in.

Because he could end up with the Vikings who are probably one good qb away from being a SB contender.

Also I heard that if they're going to trade him they want a 1st round? Not worth it IMO for a QB who will only stick around a year or two at most

[Darth Llama]

The Packers should just tell him to show up, then make him Rogers backup.

The Paperwork forces the Packers to decide rather or not they're going to keep him, it doesn't force them to make him the starter. If Brett wants to push the issue, fine, bring him in and make him ride the pine. If he doesn't like it..

He can retire....


Again.

[LD14]

The Packers should just tell him to show up, then make him Rogers backup.

The Paperwork forces the Packers to decide rather or not they're going to keep him, it doesn't force them to make him the starter. If Brett wants to push the issue, fine, bring him in and make him ride the pine. If he doesn't like it..

He can retire....


Again.

Probably the best way GB can handle it as long as he's not a distraction.

[KidStallyn]

God this will never end, just trade him already or put him as the back up. They should of ended this drama a month ago instead of allowing it to be a distraction for Rodgers and the team

Uhhh...He makes 12 million dollars. As a backup.....With more talent in his left arm then the guy whose on the field. You can't afford 12 million dollars just sitting on the bench. There's more to this story then is actually getting out.

Honestly, I think that Favre got wind he was going to be a June 1 cap casulty, so he headed them off at the pass by retiring. Then after the June 1st deadline, he asked for reinstatement. Now, the team will be forced into the full contract. The Packers really screwed up this situtation....The only way they can save face is to let him be the starter which he deserves.

[Cardz81]

Uhhh...He makes 12 million dollars. As a backup.....With more talent in his left arm then the guy whose on the field. You can't afford 12 million dollars just sitting on the bench. There's more to this story then is actually getting out.

Honestly, I think that Favre got wind he was going to be a June 1 cap casulty, so he headed them off at the pass by retiring. Then after the June 1st deadline, he asked for reinstatement. Now, the team will be forced into the full contract. The Packers really screwed up this situtation....The only way they can save face is to let him be the starter which he deserves.

Obviously I have no idea how this all works. But. IMO, if you retire -- file the paperwork and all that - your contract should end at that point. This situation just doesn't seem fair.

[Tiz]

I agree. If the Packers insist on "moving on" without Favre why would they care where he plays? I think their "we dont want you to play for us but we also dont want you to play for anybody else" attitude is ridiculous. If they did want him back they wouldn't keep telling him not to report in.

So then you are perfectly fine with the Cards letting Boldin walk without nothing in return for him. You don't just let a player who has value walk out of your building without trying to get something in return which is why Jason Taylor was traded to the Redskins and not outright released.

Because he could end up with the Vikings who are probably one good qb away from being a SB contender.

Also I heard that if they're going to trade him they want a 1st round? Not worth it IMO for a QB who will only stick around a year or two at most

They don't want a 1st round pick what they are trying to work on is a compulsory pick that would become a 1st rounder if Favre and the team he goes to have a good season. It's similar to what the Bucs gave Denver for Plummer, they gave a 7th that could have become a 3rd or 4th if he showed up and played well.


Obviously I have no idea how this all works. But. IMO, if you retire -- file the paperwork and all that - your contract should end at that point. This situation just doesn't seem fair.

No because then players would just retire to get out of their contract then unretire to play for whatever team they wanted to. Again in reference to Boldin all he'd have to do is retire and get reinstated then he doesn't have to play out the remaining 3 years on his contract and could opt to sign with Seattle or St.Louis tomorrow.

[Lomax 2 Green]

[QUOTE=Tiz;420901]So then you are perfectly fine with the Cards letting Boldin walk without nothing in return for him. You don't just let a player who has value walk out of your building without trying to get something in return which is why Jason Taylor was traded to the Redskins and not outright released.


I didnt say anything about not getting anything in return for him. My point is that the Packers dont want Favre on their team AND they dont want him to play for another team. They should trade him and get all they can for him.

[Tiz]

I didnt say anything about not getting anything in return for him. My point is that the Packers dont want Favre on their team AND they dont want him to play for another team. They should trade him and get all they can for him.

They have never stated they don't want him to play on another team. They have asked him numerous times to provide them with a list of teams that he would like to be traded to and he has not complied (read cnnsi.com).

[KidStallyn]

Obviously I have no idea how this all works. But. IMO, if you retire -- file the paperwork and all that - your contract should end at that point. This situation just doesn't seem fair.

Is it fair that the team would have cut him after 16 years as a Green Bay Packer, never missing a game and taking them to the NFC Championship last year. One losing season during his entire reign as quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. 9 Pro Bowl appearances. A Super Bowl victory...a 4155 yard season and a QB rating of 95.7 last year along with the 2nd best record in the NFC.

I dunno, I think Brett earned his right to have a say in any situation and be treated more like a Champion then some cast away.

[bragz]

Its totally a poker game. Favre needs to jsut show up and say he'll play backup. Then he'll get traded. They wont pay him that money. Right now the Packers are banking that he wont be ok with that and he'll sit out or retire letting GB off the hook financially.

I think the rule is there for people like Barry Sanders. Wish they would have traded Barry tho. Wanted to see what he could have done.

[Tiz]

Its totally a poker game. Favre needs to jsut show up and say he'll play backup. Then he'll get traded. They wont pay him that money. Right now the Packers are banking that he wont be ok with that and he'll sit out or retire letting GB off the hook financially.

I think the rule is there for people like Barry Sanders. Wish they would have traded Barry tho. Wanted to see what he could have done.

Exactly. Favre never committed despite the team asking him to come back several times then Favre claims he's interested in coming back while also calling all talks of him coming back a rumor so they called his bluff. Now he's attempting to call theirs but until he shows up in camp acting like he really wants to play this year it's all for nothing. As great as Favre is/was. If he's not on a teams roster early enough he's not going to be as useful as people think.

[Cardz81]

No because then players would just retire to get out of their contract then unretire to play for whatever team they wanted to. Again in reference to Boldin all he'd have to do is retire and get reinstated then he doesn't have to play out the remaining 3 years on his contract and could opt to sign with Seattle or St.Louis tomorrow.

Excellent point. I knew I wasn't thinking that one through.

(PS - Boldin and Seattle or St Louis in the same sentence - you're killing me, man! LOL )

[Cardz81]

Is it fair that the team would have cut him after 16 years as a Green Bay Packer, never missing a game and taking them to the NFC Championship last year. One losing season during his entire reign as quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. 9 Pro Bowl appearances. A Super Bowl victory...a 4155 yard season and a QB rating of 95.7 last year along with the 2nd best record in the NFC.

I dunno, I think Brett earned his right to have a say in any situation and be treated more like a Champion then some cast away.

No, that's not fair, either. I honestly don't know what to think. Personally, I agree that he is a Champion and should be treated as one - but GB is in a tough spot,too.

Glad it's not me making the call.

[kjbad]

I don't know why GB isn't just kicking the guy to the curb...of course, they could always pay him to stay retired. :)

[kjbad]

Looks like I spoke too soon...

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/07/30/report-packers-offer-favre-20-million-to-stay-home.aspx

Report: Packers offer Favre $20 million to stay home
By Greg A. Bedard
Wednesday, Jul 30 2008, 09:51 PM

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers are so desperate to not have Brett Favre report to training camp that they reportedly offered him a substantial amount of money to stay home.

WTMJ-TV Channel 4 in Milwaukee, citing two sources, reported Wednesday that Packers president Mark Murphy at least floated the idea to Favre of paying him a package in the neighborhood of $20 million over 10 years to remain retired. Murphy met most of Wednesday with Favre and his agent, Bus Cook, in Hattiesburg, Miss.

A source subsequently confirmed that the Packers have discussed monetary compensation with Favre and Cook.

If WTMJ's report is true, it could potentially cripple the Packers in court of public opinion as it could be interpreted as a bribe to Favre, a player that has said he wants to continue his career.

Murphy arrived back in Green Bay at approximately 9 p.m. and did not stop to talk to reporters as he was driven from the airport. A few minutes later, the Packers released this statement from Murphy:

"I was in Hattiesburg today and had a nice visit with Brett Favre. We discussed a number of topics not related to football, including Brett’s long-term relationship with the Packers. I consider our conversation to be confidential and am going to be respectful of Brett and his family and keep the details private."

When asked if the Packers had a specific comment on WTMJ's report, Murphy's spokesman, Aaron Popkey, said no further comment would be coming from the Packers this evening.

Favre apparently didn't think much of the Packers' offer, as Cook told reporters that his client wished to return to the Packers.

"Right now he's interested in going back to the Green Bay Packers," Cook said.

"He would love to go back to Green Bay. That's why he started working out. But right now it looks like he'll be the quarterback at Oak Grove High School (where Favre has been working out)."
Peter Platten, a member of the Packers' executive committee, was asked about the WTMJ report.

"I will not make a comment on that," Platten said.

Asked who would, Platten said Murphy.

If the report is true, the executive committee, the group that brought Murphy to replace, would likely have a role to play in giving Murphy their backing on the offer.

Throughout the entire Favre soap opera, the committee has backed Murphy and General Manager Ted Thompson.

Other executive committee members could not be reached for comment.

[NightHawk11and81]

Looks like I spoke too soon...

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/archive/2008/07/30/report-packers-offer-favre-20-million-to-stay-home.aspx

Report: Packers offer Favre $20 million to stay home
By Greg A. Bedard
Wednesday, Jul 30 2008, 09:51 PM

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers are so desperate to not have Brett Favre report to training camp that they reportedly offered him a substantial amount of money to stay home.

WTMJ-TV Channel 4 in Milwaukee, citing two sources, reported Wednesday that Packers president Mark Murphy at least floated the idea to Favre of paying him a package in the neighborhood of $20 million over 10 years to remain retired. Murphy met most of Wednesday with Favre and his agent, Bus Cook, in Hattiesburg, Miss.

A source subsequently confirmed that the Packers have discussed monetary compensation with Favre and Cook.

If WTMJ's report is true, it could potentially cripple the Packers in court of public opinion as it could be interpreted as a bribe to Favre, a player that has said he wants to continue his career.

Murphy arrived back in Green Bay at approximately 9 p.m. and did not stop to talk to reporters as he was driven from the airport. A few minutes later, the Packers released this statement from Murphy:

"I was in Hattiesburg today and had a nice visit with Brett Favre. We discussed a number of topics not related to football, including Brett’s long-term relationship with the Packers. I consider our conversation to be confidential and am going to be respectful of Brett and his family and keep the details private."

When asked if the Packers had a specific comment on WTMJ's report, Murphy's spokesman, Aaron Popkey, said no further comment would be coming from the Packers this evening.

Favre apparently didn't think much of the Packers' offer, as Cook told reporters that his client wished to return to the Packers.

"Right now he's interested in going back to the Green Bay Packers," Cook said.

"He would love to go back to Green Bay. That's why he started working out. But right now it looks like he'll be the quarterback at Oak Grove High School (where Favre has been working out)."
Peter Platten, a member of the Packers' executive committee, was asked about the WTMJ report.

"I will not make a comment on that," Platten said.

Asked who would, Platten said Murphy.

If the report is true, the executive committee, the group that brought Murphy to replace, would likely have a role to play in giving Murphy their backing on the offer.

Throughout the entire Favre soap opera, the committee has backed Murphy and General Manager Ted Thompson.

Other executive committee members could not be reached for comment.

If it's true, the Packers made a serious mistake here. Now they look just as bad as Favre.

The right thing for Green Bay to do would have been to tell Favre, "Look, you retired. So we moved on without you, and we're not going to undo all the work we've done. Aaron Rodgers is going to be our starting quarterback, no matter what you say or do. Now, if you want to return as our backup quarterback, you're welcome to do so. But we're not going to release you and we're not going to trade you unless we get a fair deal for you, just like any other player. If that doesn't happen, your choices are to be the backup or stay retired."

Instead, Green Bay has let public opinion dictate its move. Favre was completely the villain, and Green Bay managed to screw this up partially. Now they both look foolish, if this is true.

[Northern Soul]

Brett should set up an NFL Seniors Tour, like in Tennis or golf. It cant be any worse than Arena football.

Get loads of guys who still think they can do it, to put their pads on and play. :Cool: ;joker:

[LD14]

They don't want a 1st round pick what they are trying to work on is a compulsory pick that would become a 1st rounder if Favre and the team he goes to have a good season. It's similar to what the Bucs gave Denver for Plummer, they gave a 7th that could have become a 3rd or 4th if he showed up and played well.

Thanks for clearing that up

[Lomax 2 Green]

It looks like Favre refused the 20,000,000 dollar "bribe" from the Packers front office to stay retired.

A soap opera writer couldn't come up with stuff this good. Good goin' Brett!

[kjbad]

Only in America can a guy get an extra $20M NOT to show up to work....classic.

Brett needs to just hang it up. He's had 17 years, 3 MVPs, a Super Bowl ring,and just about every record a QB can possibly hope to have in his career. What player wouldn't be happy with those accomplishments?

Just let the Packers move on, Brett. A wise person said that you really shouldn't want your to get back with your girlfriend if she already decided to dump you...and the Packers have already decided to dump him.

[ImAWalkingCorpse]

As long as he doesn't get traded to my Buccaneers for anything more than a 3rd round pick.

[leinart_7]

i'm a green bay packer first..then a cards fan so chill, lol and this is getting ridiculous. i'm sick of brett thinking he can just do whatever he wants. he's my favorite qb and player of all time but go back to the retirement home and be quiet.

[Lomax 2 Green]

I have to admit that hearing about the Favre/Packer ordeal everyday is much more entertaining than the usual useless info on what's goin' on in Cowboy & Patriot land this time every year.

[grigsby1966]

:cardinals: Why won't anyone listen. I'll say it as simple as possible. Unless you were cursed with a cheesehead fetish, the only good place for Favre (unfortunately one of the best Qbacks of all time) is on his back!!!! :Cards logo:

[kjbad]

The Packers must really think people are stupid...

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/packers/298859

Packers: Favre mulls licensing deal, not 'bribe'
By JASON WILDE


GREEN BAY — Brett Favre is seriously considering accepting the Green Bay Packers' $20 million personal services contract offer, but the retired-for-now quarterback admits he still wants to play within the NFC North — for someone other than the Packers if necessary.

Favre sent text messages to ESPN's Ed Werder Thursday night confirming he's mulling over the Packers' much-publicized 10-year, $20 million offer, which a source close to the negotiations told the State Journal was part of an ongoing negotiation on a long-term marketing and licensing agreement between the sides — and not a last-ditch attempt to pay Favre to stay away from training camp.

Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy's eight-hour meeting with Favre and agent James "Bus" Cook on Wednesday at Cook's Hattiesburg, Miss., office was the continuation of talks that began not long after news of Favre's retirement broke March 4, the source said.

"In no way were they trying to bribe Brett or buy their way out of the situation," the source told the State Journal. "That's just not something they'd do. They started talking to (the Favres) about this shortly after he retired."

According to the source, the sides have continued to discuss such a deal throughout the melodrama that has unfolded regarding Favre's desire to play football again.

"They've continued to pursue this, regardless of the football situation," the source said. "It's really been on parallel tracks."

In his text message to Werder, Favre said of the offer: "There isn't a perfect solution to this, but Mark Murphy is at least trying. We know what they want and where I stand. (Murphy's) solution, although awkward and unsettling for most, may be the best in the end."

An NFL source that has been in contact with Favre over the last few days told the State Journal Favre still very much wants to play for the Packers' division rival, the Minnesota Vikings. Asked what his objective is in wanting to play again, Favre texted Werder, "My intentions have been to play, and with Green Bay. They say no, so I still want to play in this division for obvious reasons, which I made clear to management. If they won't let me play in Green Bay, let me play against you. That's where I am."

According to another NFL source, the idea of trading Favre to division rivals Minnesota or the Chicago Bears has always been viewed within the organization as an absolute last resort, and the team still doesn't consider such a deal a viable option.

"If you can trade and get something for him, it's better than releasing him, but they would really be reluctant to trade him within the division," the league source said.

However, the source that has been in contact with Favre said of a possible deal with the Vikings, "I think it's closer (to happening) than anyone thinks."

The Packers' tampering charge against the Vikings for communication between Favre and Vikings coach Brad Childress and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell is still pending.

While Favre may still want to play, he also sees the value in the marketing contract with the Packers, the source familiar with the negotiations said. However, the offer is not contingent on Favre retiring and staying retired. It would remain available to him even if he played this season.

The story of the offer began when, citing sources close to Favre, WTMJ-TV in Milwaukee reported Murphy presented Favre and Cook with an offer in which the Packers would pay Favre $2 million per year over the next 10 years to stay retired.

The report intimated the offer was a new development in the ongoing Favre saga, which began when Favre informed coach Mike McCarthy June 20 he was considering a comeback and the club wasn't as receptive to the idea as Favre had hoped.

But given the way the situation has played out in the past several weeks, Favre's football-playing options may not appeal to him — the Packers have made it clear Aaron Rodgers is their starter even if Favre is reinstated by commissioner Roger Goodell, and the Packers have refused to grant him the outright release he sought in a July 11 letter — and an NFL source said the quarterback may scuttle his comeback bid altogether.

According to multiple league sources, the Packers have engaged in trade talks with both the New York Jets and Tampa Bay Buccaneers regarding Favre, but while both clubs have been granted permission to talk to the quarterback, Favre himself had not spoken to either club, making a deal difficult. Although the Green Bay Press-Gazette reported Thursday night the Packers and Cook were engaged in "serious talks" with the Jets about a trade, a league source said nothing had changed.

"He says he wants to play, but now he looks at the options he has now and they're not really that attractive to him," the source said.

It appeared the Buccaneers' interest might intensify after quarterback Jeff Garcia suffered a right calf injury and had to be carted off the practice field Thursday morning, but Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden said Garcia is day-to-day.

"I don't believe it's serious," Gruden said. "We're going to get the information. He might not have much at all. Right now, until we evaluate it further, we really can't say much else.

"I think it was just a freak thing. He was dropping back and took off as he always does, changed directions and felt a little pull in there."

Meanwhile, Goodell chose to wait another day to reinstate Favre, who faxed his paperwork into the league office Monday. An NFL spokesman said in a statement Goodell wanted to give Favre and the Packers more time to keep talking.

As a result, Favre did not board a plane bound from Hattiesburg to Green Bay as planned, and Cook told a Mississippi-based Associated Press reporter Favre wouldn't come to Green Bay until Goodell ruled on his application.

"He's ready to go back, but he can't go back until the commissioner reinstates him," Cook said.

Asked about the potential circus atmosphere at Packers camp should Favre report, Cook replied, "He's prepared to deal with it."

McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson have maintained publicly the team would welcome Favre back. The Packers are prepared for his arrival at camp — a Packers source said they have a room ready for him at St. Norbert College in De Pere — but it appears unlikely that Favre would be on the field with the team before next week if he were reinstated and did report.

[NJCardFan]

Brett should set up an NFL Seniors Tour, like in Tennis or golf. It cant be any worse than Arena football.

Get loads of guys who still think they can do it, to put their pads on and play. :Cool: ;joker:

Why you hatin' on the AFL? Kurt Warner played in the AFL and he turned out pretty good in the NFL.

[70'sCardFan]

Looks like Favre is getting his reinstatement from Goodell and is heading to Green Bay. Thing are going to get real interesting now.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d809b543d&template=with-video&confirm=true

[NightHawk11and81]

Why would you have a QB competition now? Rodgers is the starter. That's how it needs to stay. Green Bay held all the cards, and is somehow going to lose.

[kjbad]

Why would you have a QB competition now? Rodgers is the starter. That's how it needs to stay. Green Bay held all the cards, and is somehow going to lose.

Favre coming back for this competition means that Rodgers loses valuable time with the starting unit...:throwfootball:

Rodgers should be livid right now, and Green Bay should be ashamed. In Aaron's contract, he only gets $2.2M of the $8.25M promised to him if he doesn't become a starter until 2008. Well, bringing back Favre almost certainly shuts that door, plus he still doesn't get to play!!!!

GB, when do you stop going to Brett Favre? Do they seriously think Rodgers wants to play for them if they keep bringing the skeleton out of the closet?? If I'm Rodgers, I have no allegiance to the Packers anymore. There is no reason to trust anything they say, he might as well tell his agent to get him traded as soon as the season ends.

Sad, sad day.

[BigDinGlenDale]

I don't find it classless of Favre to want to go to a division opponent. I find it funny. If he lights the world on fire with say the Vikings and the Packers struggle under Rodgers, then it will be sweet revenge on the people that 'didn't want him there.'

It's obviously not the Green Bay fans. If they could they'd have a dead rotten Brett Favre torso still on the field 20 years from now.

Did anyone else here Madden say something tonight about an open competition (which was the first I'd heard of it) and how it would obviously go to Favre. I half expected him to start voicing opinions on Favre winning the Super Bowl.

[NightHawk11and81]

I don't find it classless of Favre to want to go to a division opponent. I find it funny. If he lights the world on fire with say the Vikings and the Packers struggle under Rodgers, then it will be sweet revenge on the people that 'didn't want him there.'

It's obviously not the Green Bay fans. If they could they'd have a dead rotten Brett Favre torso still on the field 20 years from now.

Did anyone else here Madden say something tonight about an open competition (which was the first I'd heard of it) and how it would obviously go to Favre. I half expected him to start voicing opinions on Favre winning the Super Bowl.

And if they don't, this is a nightmare for Green Bay. You have a young quarterback who you have stood by all this time. If you make Favre the starter now, you have to be 100% sure that he will get you to the Super Bowl. If Mike McCarthy asks himself if that will happen and honestly says yes, fine, give Favre a try.

But if there is any doubt in his mind, Aaron Rodgers has to start. Bench him now, you might lose him, and you lose Favre anyway at the end of the year. Then you start over.

[Tiz]

IMO GB won't win with Favre so it doesn't matter if they don't win the SB without him.

What will happen is that if they don't win the SB with Rodgers this year people will act like Favre would have won it despite not being there in over 10 years.

What's sad is that any numbers Rodgers put up will be compared to Favres MVP years and not to the years in which Favre's rating was under 80 and he threw more INTs than TDs such as in 2005.

As many records as Favre has he doesn't have a record for SB appearances or SB wins in fact he's 1-1 in the SB and again the last appearance being 10 years ago.

What also gets me is if you bring up the INT record he holds people dismiss it as "well he's played 17 years" but they don't use that to dismiss the other records he holds. No one ever talks about how it took Favre to play more seasons to get the records over the previous record holders and no one ever wants to talk about how Vinny T ranks high in career yardage.

[SO. CAL Heart-Throb]

i use to respect favre like no other, but this whole thing ticks me off... dude if u want to play just go to the jets or bucs.. its aaron's party now in green bay!!!

[KidStallyn]

If you honestly think that the Packers are better off with Aaron Rodgers as their QB then your as hardheaded as the Packers Front office. Seriously. Aaron Rodgers hasn't even earned the right to carry Brett Favres jock strap after practice. Brett Favre threw for over 4000 yards last year. You honestly think he's lost that much since January. NO.

The deal here is that the Packers don't/didn't want to pay Brett his 12 million that he's owed this season. I totally believe (especially after the 20million dollar BRIBE to stay retired) that Brett was going to be a June 1st cap "casualty". And Brett has earned MORE THEN THAT! 16 seasons, 2 super bowl appearances, 1 super bowl victory, 9 pro bowls, 3 consecutive NFL MVPs, 1 losing season as STARTING QB and perhaps the greatest of all his seasons was LAST YEAR.

BRETT DESERVES MUCH BETTER THEN GREEN BAY IS OFFERING!

[NightHawk11and81]

If you honestly think that the Packers are better off with Aaron Rodgers as their QB then your as hardheaded as the Packers Front office. Seriously. Aaron Rodgers hasn't even earned the right to carry Brett Favres jock strap after practice. Brett Favre threw for over 4000 yards last year. You honestly think he's lost that much since January. NO.

The deal here is that the Packers don't/didn't want to pay Brett his 12 million that he's owed this season. I totally believe (especially after the 20million dollar BRIBE to stay retired) that Brett was going to be a June 1st cap "casualty". And Brett has earned MORE THEN THAT! 16 seasons, 2 super bowl appearances, 1 super bowl victory, 9 pro bowls, 3 consecutive NFL MVPs, 1 losing season as STARTING QB and perhaps the greatest of all his seasons was LAST YEAR.

BRETT DESERVES MUCH BETTER THEN GREEN BAY IS OFFERING!

Are you serious, Kid? After all he's done to them, you still think Favre is being mistreated by the Packers? The Packers went way beyond what they owed Favre. If anything, Green Bay deserves much better than what Brett is doing.

No player is bigger than the franchise. It is a general manager and coach's job to do what is best for the FRANCHISE, not what is best for one man. What is best for the franchise at this point, given all that has happened, is for Aaron Rodgers to be the unquestioned starter of the Packers. Had Favre not retired, this would not be the case. But he stepped aside voluntarily. Green Bay had to make plans without him. That's the decision you make.

Unless you get to the Super Bowl with Brett Favre at the helm, it is not worth it to sacrifice your future for Favre's legacy. He might be the better quarterback, but because he retired, that doesn't matter anymore. Bring him back, break your promises to Rodgers, and he's going to leave at the first chance he gets. Then you've lost your future. Only a Super Bowl appearance makes that okay.

But if the Packers don't get there, it was all for nothing. Seriously, which would you take:
A. You can get a legend quarterback, who will get you an 11-5 season and an appearance in the divisional playoffs, but if you take him back, you will not see the playoffs again for five years once he leaves.
OR
B. You start a new quarterback, and you will get a 9-7 season, sneak into the playoffs because your division is terrible and lose in the first round, but you will be a contender for several years.

The obvious choice is B. The obvious choice is Aaron Rodgers. If Thompson and McCarthy are really doing their jobs, Brett Favre has no chance at all to win this competition. If Favre starts the season opener and Rodgers is not injured, both Thompson and McCarthy should be requested to seek alternative employment.

[KidStallyn]

The NFL and head coaching jobs are about WINS and LOSSES. If you get more wins with Brett Favre at QB, then as a COACH your choice is EASY. Brett was one bad throw from going to the Super Bowl just a few months ago, and you're already writing him off as some cast away washed up guy who wont take this team anyways. Thompson and McCarthy should be fired if they don't put Brett Favre as starting QB, because their season will be over the minute they don't.

Sorry, this franchise moved past Brett Favre the day after their loss to the Giants, and Favre headed them off at the pass. The NFL could care less about little Aaron Rodgers. He couldn't be the starter on 31 other NFL teams, and doesn't deserve the starting job in Green Bay either.

[BigDinGlenDale]

So Rodgers went 9/20 the other day...in PRACTICE. I'd be crying for Favre back. Good lord.

[kjbad]

So Rodgers went 9/20 the other day...in PRACTICE. I'd be crying for Favre back. Good lord.

I'm sure the guy's spirit is broken by now...besides, as we speak GB is trying to trade Favre to the Vikes...

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=779379

Vikings contacted about trade for Favre
Deal to rival still possible, source says
By BOB McGINN

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers welcomed back quarterback Brett Favre from the reserve-retired list Sunday knowing full well that they've already taken the first step toward trading him to the Minnesota Vikings.

An executive in personnel for a National Football League team with close ties to clubs in the NFC North Division told the Journal Sentinel that the Packers called the Vikings on Friday informing them that Favre was available.

“They’ve kind of said through one of their (front-office) guys that if Favre did report they would potentially trade him within the division,” the executive said late Sunday afternoon.

The source said the conversation between officials from the two bitter rivals was brief. There was no discussion about possible compensation.

James “Bus” Cook, Favre’s agent, has not been involved in talks with the Vikings regarding a possible restructuring of his contract, according to the source.

The contact by the Packers was termed “a feeler” in the event Favre rejected the multimillion-dollar marketing and promotional agreement offered by Green Bay.

“They thought he would agree to it,” the executive said. “Evidently, he didn’t agree to it.”

The Vikings, according to the source, remain convinced that the Packers don’t want Favre on their roster in 2008.

It appears more and more as if the Vikings are the only team in the NFC North with legitimate interest in Favre. On Thursday, top officials of the Detroit Lions said they wouldn’t trade for him. In Chicago, coach Lovie Smith said he was happy with quarterbacks Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton.

“The Bears say they’re not interested,” the source said. “The Bears just kind of are what they are. I don’t see him in Detroit, either. At least the Vikings’ offense is what he’s used to. Old dogs don’t learn new tricks, especially in three weeks.”

At midweek, several NFL personnel people theorized that if Favre were traded the compensation to the Packers would be in the range of second- and fifth-round draft choices.

The source scoffed at that suggestion, indicating that the Vikings might consider parting with a fourth- or fifth-round choice but nothing more. He said no NFL team had any reason to offer Green Bay more than that because of the possibility the Packers might release him a week before the opener.

If the Vikings make a move on Favre, the source said they wanted to do so much sooner than later to prepare him for the Sept. 8 season-opening game in Green Bay.

Is it possible that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who has yet to rule on the Packers’ tampering charge against the Vikings, could play a role in ensuring that compensation coming to Green Bay would be more in keeping with Favre’s stature?

“He has no right to do that,” the source said. “He’s already carried this thing out too far. It’s kind of a joke.”

The Vikings’ starting quarterback is Tarvaris Jackson, a second-round pick in 2006 who started two games as a rookie and 12 last season. His record as a starter is 8-6.

One scout who saw the Minnesota-Kansas City scrimmage Friday night in River Falls said Jackson was sharp.

The Vikings’ offensive coordinator, Darrell Bevell, was an assistant in Green Bay from 2000-’05 and Favre’s position coach for the last three years.

Both the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and New York Jets have been involved in trade talks for Favre, but Favre was quoted as having said he wanted to play for an NFC North team so he could play against the Packers.

[NightHawk11and81]

The NFL and head coaching jobs are about WINS and LOSSES. If you get more wins with Brett Favre at QB, then as a COACH your choice is EASY. Brett was one bad throw from going to the Super Bowl just a few months ago, and you're already writing him off as some cast away washed up guy who wont take this team anyways. Thompson and McCarthy should be fired if they don't put Brett Favre as starting QB, because their season will be over the minute they don't.

Sorry, this franchise moved past Brett Favre the day after their loss to the Giants, and Favre headed them off at the pass. The NFL could care less about little Aaron Rodgers. He couldn't be the starter on 31 other NFL teams, and doesn't deserve the starting job in Green Bay either.

And you're writing off Aaron Rodgers for no reason whatsoever. Kid, you fail to see that running a franchise lasts beyond one season. You have to plan for the future. That is why you are not an NFL GM and Ted Thompson is. He made the mistake of not standing up to Favre, but he has a chance to atone for it by fixing this competition so that Favre cannot win the job.

I'll be completely honest: I don't believe Brett Favre makes the Packers much better than Aaron Rodgers does. Two games at maximum. Are two wins really worth tossing away the future for? Of course not.

Finally, you're being completely ridiculous when you say Aaron Rodgers could not start for 31 other teams or the Packers. Really? You honestly believe that? On the contrary, Aaron Rodgers might be the best quarterback in the NFC North, he could start for all three rivals. He could easily start for Miami, Baltimore, San Francisco, Atlanta, Kansas City, Oakland and Tampa Bay, plus maybe Houston, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Buffalo, the Jets and Washington.

Your position is completely ridiculous. Far better to sacrifice 2008 if necessary for the good of the franchise long-term. Even if they do start Rodgers, that's not a sacrifice. Rodgers could still lead them to the playoffs and has earned his chance.

[KidStallyn]

I'll be completely honest: I don't believe Brett Favre makes the Packers much better than Aaron Rodgers does. Two games at maximum. Are two wins really worth tossing away the future for? Of course not.

Seriously. Get your mind right. Cuz, 4000 yard passing QBs don't grow in trees. There is NO WAY Aaron Rodgers throws for 4000 yards with the same lineup from last year. NO WAY. SORRY. And if your a GM already planning for the 2009 NFL Season, when your 2008 training camp has just started, then you need to get out of Dodge. You know what NFL stands for. NOT FOR LONG! Cuz, that's a coaches and GMs career if the Green Bay Packers start Aaron Rodgers in Week 1. The Packers faithful will litter the field when they lose if Aaron Rodgers is at the helm, and BRETT ******* FAVRE is on the bench. The BOO BIRDS will out in force. Again, Aaron Rodgers is NOT the savior of that team. If he was, they wouldn't have drafted a QB this year.

[NightHawk11and81]

Seriously. Get your mind right. Cuz, 4000 yard passing QBs don't grow in trees. There is NO WAY Aaron Rodgers throws for 4000 yards with the same lineup from last year. NO WAY. SORRY. And if your a GM already planning for the 2009 NFL Season, when your 2008 training camp has just started, then you need to get out of Dodge. You know what NFL stands for. NOT FOR LONG! Cuz, that's a coaches and GMs career if the Green Bay Packers start Aaron Rodgers in Week 1. The Packers faithful will litter the field when they lose if Aaron Rodgers is at the helm, and BRETT ******* FAVRE is on the bench. The BOO BIRDS will out in force. Again, Aaron Rodgers is NOT the savior of that team. If he was, they wouldn't have drafted a QB this year.

Wrong again. Here's everything that's wrong with your post.

1. 4000 yards is nice. But it's not everything. The Packers don't need Rodgers to throw for 4000 yards to win. They have a strong running game led by Ryan Grant. I think Green Bay will gladly take 3000 yards from Rodgers.

Teams win without big numbers from their quarterbacks. The quarterback with the second-best yardage last year was Drew Brees. Where were the Saints in January? Sitting at home.

2. "If you're a GM planning for the 2009 season when the 2008 season starts, you need to get out": That was serious? I guarantee you any GM doing his job is planning for 2009 and beyond as well as right now. GM's have to have the ability to see beyond this season for any move they might make. If you AREN'T thinking about 2009 in 2008, you need to find a new job, or you are going to run your team into an awful situation in a year.

And save that "Not for long" garbage. For all the hype that gets, a good chunk of players last a while.

3. "That's a coach's or GM's career if the Green Bay Packers start Aaron Rodgers in Week 1. The Packers faithful will litter the field when they lose if Aaron Rodgers is at the helm, and BRETT ******* FAVRE is on the bench. The BOO BIRDS will out in force.": Who cares? Smart GM's and coaches run the teams, they don't let the fans run the team for them!

You are actually suggesting that the Packers listen to what the fans think should happen? There's a reason teams don't do that: the fans have no clue what they're talking about! How many Texans fans wanted Reggie Bush or Vince Young two seasons ago? How thankful are they now to have Mario Williams? How about the Cincinnati Bengals, who handed the job to Carson Palmer when Jon Kitna had performed well for 16 games? Any Bengals fans still against that move?

Let the fans dictate your move, and you're going to be sitting with them, and frankly, you deserve to.

4. "Again, Aaron Rodgers is NOT the savior of that team. If he was, they wouldn't have drafted a QB this year.": Might be the most idiotic of anything you've said. Green Bay was really going to head into 2008 with ONE quarterback on the roster? They drafted a quarterback because Favre retired. That simple.

[yukmouth2005]

I will take Aaron Rodgers over Matt Leinart
any day has a starter:d'oh:

[Tiz]

Yes, that is something that I have pointed out. I think that they lost to the Giants when they were moving down the field to set up a winning FG try and Farve threw an interception, thefront office groaned and were probably very relieved to see him retire.

But now that he is coming back, Green Bay will start #4. I would be surprised if they traded him to the Vikings especially. Can you inagine if he went to the Vikings and they went to the Super Bowl? Meanwhile Green Bay goes 7-9, and misses the playoffs.

I think with a stable QB minnesota makes the SB. I don't think they'll give up too much for Favre if they do trade for him as they have a team that seems to be built around the 2k Ravens season. They are already stacked on defense against the run. Added pass rushing to help the CBs and they have a great running game. Jackson could 'lead' them to the Super Bowl by simply controlling the tempo of the game and helping to ensure that his team scores first and gets atleast 17 ppg.

[Lomax 2 Green]

ESPN just reported that Favre may become a Buccaneer within 24 hrs.

Don't the Bucs & Packers play each other? That might get better ratings than the Super Bowl.

[NightHawk11and81]

Now it appears Favre will be traded to Tampa Bay. If it's true, and there is any justice in this world, the Packers will steamroll the Bucs when they play.

[yukmouth2005]

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/894/894383/madden-nfl-09-20080728022129495_640w.jpg
[/quote]

[Darth Llama]

Now it appears Favre will be traded to Tampa Bay. If it's true, and there is any justice in this world, the Packers will steamroll the Bucs when they play.

This will be the first year that I don't root for Brett Favre. I hope he gets steamrolled in Tampa.

[KidStallyn]

Today is the beginning of the end for the Coaching Staff, General Manager, and Aaron Rodgers. The fans of Green Bay will not take kindly to how this is being handled. Brett favre is an ICON and a LEGEND. When the Aaron Rodgers experiment FAILS, the BOO BIRDS will come out. The Packers will NOT make the playoffs this year. Mike McCarthy and the General Manager (who by the way is trying to save face here because he hand picked Rodgers) will be FIRED. The Packers will end up 5-11. That's my prediction. And to put Brett on a national stage he is going to LIGHT up the Packers when he plays him. Brett has some of his best games when his back's against the wall. Does anyone remember the Monday Nighter the day after his father died. I sure do! His motivation and emotions will be 100 fold compared to that!

[NightHawk11and81]

Today is the beginning of the end for the Coaching Staff, General Manager, and Aaron Rodgers. The fans of Green Bay will not take kindly to how this is being handled. Brett favre is an ICON and a LEGEND. When the Aaron Rodgers experiment FAILS, the BOO BIRDS will come out. The Packers will NOT make the playoffs this year. Mike McCarthy and the General Manager (who by the way is trying to save face here because he hand picked Rodgers) will be FIRED. The Packers will end up 5-11. That's my prediction. And to put Brett on a national stage he is going to LIGHT up the Packers when he plays him. Brett has some of his best games when his back's against the wall. Does anyone remember the Monday Nighter the day after his father died. I sure do! His motivation and emotions will be 100 fold compared to that!

I disagree completely. I don't think the Packer organization really cares what the fan think, nor should they. Thompson and McCarthy currently have the support of the club president, and why shouldn't they? They've made the moves to protect the football team, not Brett Favre.

I think the Rodgers experiment works, and Green Bay at least challenges for a playoff spot. The disparity in quarterbacks is not that great. If the Packers go 5-11 with Rodgers, they still made the right move, because they would have only been about 7-9 with Favre at max, and that's if you assume Favre's stillbetter at 38.

I also think the Packers whip the Buccaneers. Why? Two reasons:

1. I believe in justice in this world. If there is any, Favre will be humiliated against the Packers.
2. Justice or no, Favre is still a cornerback's best friend. I see a good day for Charles Woodson and friends.

[Tiz]

I disagree completely. I don't think the Packer organization really cares what the fan think, nor should they. Thompson and McCarthy currently have the support of the club president, and why shouldn't they? They've made the moves to protect the football team, not Brett Favre.

I think the Rodgers experiment works, and Green Bay at least challenges for a playoff spot. The disparity in quarterbacks is not that great. If the Packers go 5-11 with Rodgers, they still made the right move, because they would have only been about 7-9 with Favre at max, and that's if you assume Favre's stillbetter at 38.

I also think the Packers whip the Buccaneers. Why? Two reasons:

1. I believe in justice in this world. If there is any, Favre will be humiliated against the Packers.
2. Justice or no, Favre is still a cornerback's best friend. I see a good day for Charles Woodson and friends.

Favre had a rating under 80 while learning Mccarthy's system Gruden's system is completely different from Mccarthy's and yet Favre is expected to come in and learn the plays and wrs and be successful in a short time. I think week 4 would be an INT fest.

Favre is going to be useless his first year in a new system as evident by the way he's played during his career when changes were made. At 38 and with the way he has shown to be constantly changing his mind you simply don't have 2 years to hope he grasp the new system and does well. Like I said before the 2 years prior to this last year his QB rating was under 80 and I expect more of the same as he's going to a new team, new system and completely new WRs.

[KidStallyn]

Favre had a rating under 80 while learning Mccarthy's system Gruden's system is completely different from Mccarthy's and yet Favre is expected to come in and learn the plays and wrs and be successful in a short time. I think week 4 would be an INT fest.

Favre is going to be useless his first year in a new system as evident by the way he's played during his career when changes were made. At 38 and with the way he has shown to be constantly changing his mind you simply don't have 2 years to hope he grasp the new system and does well. Like I said before the 2 years prior to this last year his QB rating was under 80 and I expect more of the same as he's going to a new team, new system and completely new WRs.

His learning curve isn't going to be much of anything. Jon Gruden is a product of Mike Holmgrens system and was a Packers assistant from 92-94. They're pretty familiar with one another. Now, sure his system has changed a bit, but really, it's not much different, and a player of Farves capabilities, it wouldn't take him long. Minnesota would obviously be the BEST fit, but I don't see that happening.

[NightHawk11and81]

Favre had a rating under 80 while learning Mccarthy's system Gruden's system is completely different from Mccarthy's and yet Favre is expected to come in and learn the plays and wrs and be successful in a short time. I think week 4 would be an INT fest.

Favre is going to be useless his first year in a new system as evident by the way he's played during his career when changes were made. At 38 and with the way he has shown to be constantly changing his mind you simply don't have 2 years to hope he grasp the new system and does well. Like I said before the 2 years prior to this last year his QB rating was under 80 and I expect more of the same as he's going to a new team, new system and completely new WRs.

I think you're right. Honestly, with or without Favre, I think Tampa Bay is no better than third in that division. Carolina and New Orleans are both better if they stay healthy.

But yeah, even though it's something he's done in the past, it's still going to take time to adjust to a new team and new surroundings. Tampa's receivers are really not that great, and I'm with you, I think Favre throws a few picks and the Packers leave Florida with a win.

[KidStallyn]

I think you're right. Honestly, with or without Favre, I think Tampa Bay is no better than third in that division. Carolina and New Orleans are both better if they stay healthy.

But yeah, even though it's something he's done in the past, it's still going to take time to adjust to a new team and new surroundings. Tampa's receivers are really not that great, and I'm with you, I think Favre throws a few picks and the Packers leave Florida with a win.

Carolinas going no where and fast. You've got thier superstar beating up their cornerback. You have an often injured QB in Delhomme. The guys 1 hit from retirement. They going to give Vinnie Interceptaverde a call when he gets hurt again.

Now, lets go to running back. Goings is the guy?? Or are they hoping that rook Stewart can do it. Not sold there. If they can't run the ball, all they have left is Steve Smith inthepassing game. 13 year vet Mushin Muhammad may not even make the team. This Panthers team is not going to be anywhere near the top of the division.

Now, I think the Saints from last year was a lot due to injuries. I'll agree with you, they stay healthy, they will more then likely win the division.

Atlanta will end up on the bottom.

The Bucs are already a better team then Carolina withou Favre. With Favre, they will give the Saints a very good run at the division title.

[rackers fan]

i think he will play in minn or tampabay

[NightHawk11and81]

Carolinas going no where and fast. You've got thier superstar beating up their cornerback. You have an often injured QB in Delhomme. The guys 1 hit from retirement. They going to give Vinnie Interceptaverde a call when he gets hurt again.

Now, lets go to running back. Goings is the guy?? Or are they hoping that rook Stewart can do it. Not sold there. If they can't run the ball, all they have left is Steve Smith inthepassing game. 13 year vet Mushin Muhammad may not even make the team. This Panthers team is not going to be anywhere near the top of the division.

Now, I think the Saints from last year was a lot due to injuries. I'll agree with you, they stay healthy, they will more then likely win the division.

Atlanta will end up on the bottom.

The Bucs are already a better team then Carolina withou Favre. With Favre, they will give the Saints a very good run at the division title.

Delhomme one hit from retirement? He's had two injuries in his career. Count them up, two. That makes no sense at all to call him one hit from retirement. The only risk there is that he's coming back from Tommy John surgery too quickly. If it's healed well, Delhomme should be just as good as he was before the injury.

Running back? How about DeAngelo Williams? He's excelled in tag-teaming with DeShaun Foster in the past, and the Panthers will likely try that again with Jonathan Stewart replacing Foster. Carolina's fine there.

The receivers should be fine. I doubt Muhammad gets cut after just signing a two-year deal in free agency. D.J. Hackett should be solid as a #3, and of course, you've got Smith. The offensive line is also strong.

I'm not seeing, with or without Brett Favre, how the Buccaneers are a better team than the Panthers. Carolina's defense is serviceable, and with the exception of running back, the Panthers have the edge at every offensive unit if Delhomme's given his injury enough time.

[BigDinGlenDale]

Carolinas going no where and fast. You've got thier superstar beating up their cornerback. You have an often injured QB in Delhomme. The guys 1 hit from retirement. They going to give Vinnie Interceptaverde a call when he gets hurt again.

Now, lets go to running back. Goings is the guy?? Or are they hoping that rook Stewart can do it. Not sold there. If they can't run the ball, all they have left is Steve Smith inthepassing game. 13 year vet Mushin Muhammad may not even make the team. This Panthers team is not going to be anywhere near the top of the division.

Now, I think the Saints from last year was a lot due to injuries. I'll agree with you, they stay healthy, they will more then likely win the division.

Atlanta will end up on the bottom.

The Bucs are already a better team then Carolina withou Favre. With Favre, they will give the Saints a very good run at the division title.

This post reeks of misinformation. And you call yourself a football fan.

[NightHawk11and81]

I think that Division has the teams in this order-- 1) New Orleans, (barring any injuries); 2) Tampa Bay, (Farve going there is definitely an upgrade at QB, but Jeff Garcia is solid, the only two things that hold him back are, injuries, and he can't throw the long ball); 3) Carolina (Steve Smith has caused a controversy and been suspended for 2 games, they have a lack at WR. Mohammed is good, but not great and they will have trouble having enough WR); 4) Atlanta (who knew Vick would go to jail, and the coach resigned before the season ended to go back to coaching at Arkansas? This is a team that two years ago, was pushing for the Division).

But, barring any injuries New Orleans and Tampa Bay should make it to the playoffs.

Don't sleep on the Panthers. I'm convinced they're stronger than the Bucs and the only reason Tampa Bay won last year was because they were the only one who stayed healthy.

[Tiz]

His learning curve isn't going to be much of anything. Jon Gruden is a product of Mike Holmgrens system and was a Packers assistant from 92-94.

And I will say again, the Golden boy has shown that he's not one who can deal with change as evident by his erratic career and his 24 INT 93 season.

[Tiz]

Carolinas going no where and fast. You've got thier superstar beating up their cornerback. You have an often injured QB in Delhomme. The guys 1 hit from retirement. They going to give Vinnie Interceptaverde a call when he gets hurt again.


Yeah I'm not too fond of Carolina either I think J-Stew may save them on the ground a bit but I've never been fond of Delhomme