This Is Why The NBA Sucks

[NJCardFan]

Tonight the Nuggets beat the Hornets by 5 points less than what the Hornets scored for the entire game: 58 points. At home. How do you score 63 points in an NBA game let alone a playoff game? This is something like the 4th or 5th time a team has scored less than 70 points in a playoff game this year alone. This is insane. The Heat didn't do much better tonight by scoring 71 points tonight. The NBA is so unwatchable it isn't funny. I used to love watching an NBA game but now I can't stand to look at it. Whoever thought reinstating the zone defense was a good idea should be waterboarded.

[Harmon]

I agree. I mean the Spurs are really struggling so far. and my other team, "Bobcats" didn't even make the playoffs.

[Darth Llama]

I'll just say I completely disagree 100%.

What the NBA needs less of are these teams that want to shoot the ball in 7 seconds or less and care more about flashy moves then fundamental basketball. They look like ego-maniacal children playing blacktop basketball.

Defense wins games, period.

[booman141]

I'll just say I completely disagree 100%.

What the NBA needs less of are these teams that want to shoot the ball in 7 seconds or less and care more about flashy moves then fundamental basketball. They look like ego-maniacal children playing blacktop basketball.

Defense wins games, period.

What the NBA needs is less pseudo superstars that dont really come through in the clutch

Less flopping

Less lame little introduction skits

Less officiating inconsistancies

Less dudes grabbing their crotch after hitting big shots

Less 20 year olds making way more money than they are worth.

Less dudes who are more concerned with how awesome their INK looks than their game

Less coaches who love hearing themselves talk

Less Vangundy's of any kind

Less David Stern

As much as it pains me to say, what the NBA needs is more teams like the Lakers and Celtics. :(

[Darth Llama]

What the NBA needs is less pseudo superstars that dont really come through in the clutch

Less flopping

Less lame little introduction skits

Less officiating inconsistancies

Less dudes grabbing their crotch after hitting big shots

Less 20 year olds making way more money than they are worth.

Less dudes who are more concerned with how awesome their INK looks than their game

Less coaches who love hearing themselves talk

Less Vangundy's of any kind

Less David Stern

As much as it pains me to say, what the NBA needs is more teams like the Lakers and Celtics. :(

I agree with you on all counts. I don't however think every team needs to be more like any other team, I just don't think that this game tonight between The Hornets and Nuggets was indicative of a typical NBA Game.

The Hornets lost a playoff game by 58 points, that's right.. 58 points. That's a joke, I'm not denying that, but that's because the Hornets just totally quit. By the third quarter of that game, they simply didn't care anymore. The Nuggets of course, took advantage and just piled it on. I'm not going to argue that it was a pathetic effort, but to say that game is an indicator of what's wrong in the NBA isn't accurate. The Nuggets suffocated them early with strong defense and the Hornets gave up. There have been 3 games this post season (counting this one) where a team has scored less then 70 points. One was Miami who just played like crap, and the other was Detroit against the best defensive team in the NBA (Cleveland.) It's certainly not "the norm" especially if you count how many playoff games there have been so far (33.)

[Cardinal Nation]

What the NBA needs is less pseudo superstars that dont really come through in the clutch

Less flopping

Less lame little introduction skits

Less officiating inconsistancies

Less dudes grabbing their crotch after hitting big shots

Less 20 year olds making way more money than they are worth.

Less dudes who are more concerned with how awesome their INK looks than their game

Less coaches who love hearing themselves talk

Less Vangundy's of any kind

Less David Stern

As much as it pains me to say, what the NBA needs is more teams like the Lakers and Celtics. :(

Ironically, a number of these could be said about the NFL. Especially the whole '20 year olds getting paid more than they are worth'

[kjbad]

Don't forget that the league borrowed $200 million in February, on top of the $1.7 billion they already have in credit, to continue to deliver such fine product like what we saw yesterday...:wink:

Without the automakers and the banks to buy up advertising, the NBA is beginning to sink "like a rock".

Just wait until the NBA's CBA expires in 2011 and the owners lock the players out...that will be the beginning of the end.

[Matteus]

It's funny how "good" basketball is differently perceived on different sides of the Atlantic.

Here, in Europe, if a team scores 100 points in a game you know they out-right dominated. we do play 8 minutes less, but you'll never see any of that coast-2-coast, superstar-only-gets-to-shoot, defense-is-for-the-NCAA kind of ball. Over here it's much more of a team sport than in the states, even if there is a superstar on the team. That's one of the reason I almost completely stopped watching the NBA - it's no longer a 5 on 5 game, it's a 1on1 game with some other dudes just there to help.
So I enjoyed what I saw of the Bulls-C's series - good, sound team play - passes, blocks, screens, ideas... everything a basketball game should have.

[Darth Llama]

It's funny how "good" basketball is differently perceived on different sides of the Atlantic.

Here, in Europe, if a team scores 100 points in a game you know they out-right dominated. we do play 8 minutes less, but you'll never see any of that coast-2-coast, superstar-only-gets-to-shoot, defense-is-for-the-NCAA kind of ball. Over here it's much more of a team sport than in the states, even if there is a superstar on the team. That's one of the reason I almost completely stopped watching the NBA - it's no longer a 5 on 5 game, it's a 1on1 game with some other dudes just there to help.
So I enjoyed what I saw of the Bulls-C's series - good, sound team play - passes, blocks, screens, ideas... everything a basketball game should have.

I'm sure what you say about European basketball, but with all do respect you are completely wrong about US Basketball. Sure there are teams that have one super star and 4 guys that watch him, but those teams seldom make the playoffs, much less win championships. Any of the US stars from Magic, Bird, Jordan, Bryant, James, etc that have had success in US basketball have done it with a good team. The type of basketball you talk about as the norm is so rare it practically doesn't exist.

[kjbad]

Darth is right, guys like Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul got exposed big time last night as their teams were invisible and the superstars had off nights.

But the biggest NBA issue right now is a simple one...there is no consistency on what is a foul and what is not.

Foul calls aren't even physical anymore, they're situational. If you saw the ATL/MIA game yesterday and the sequence with Mike Bibby getting called for two cheap fouls and then getting run over while shooting his 3 pt shot with no foul call, you know exactly what I mean.

When your typical fans see traveling, double dribbling, and blatant fouls go uncalled, it makes the NBA look more like pro wrestling.

[NJCardFan]

I believe the trouble is that in the NBA the talent is spread too thin. If you want to call what's on the court these days talent. But when a game goes into double OT and the final score is 110-106...back in the 80's this was the average for a regulation game. And these low scores are with the officials eliminating the traveling rule. But like I said, the game was much, much better in the 80's. Teams like the Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, and the late 80's Bulls and Pistons would crush these teams. Fundamentals are completely forgotten.

And as for playoff games, here are the games where a team has scored less than 80 points:

CLE-79 DET-68(Game 3)
CLE-99 DET-78(Game 4)
ATL-90 MIA-64(Game 1)
MIA-107 ATL-78(Game 3)
ATL-81 MIA-71(Game 4)
DEN-121 NOR-63(Game 4)
DAL-88 SAN-67(Game 3)

So, you have 7 games where a team scores under 80 and 4 of those they score under 70. Yeah, that's real exciting.

[kjbad]

So let me add to this pile-on here...the NBA also has another fundamental problem right now, star players are automatically sent to the bench when they reach 2 fouls in the 1st half. And when the big name finally gets back off of the bench, he can't play aggressively because he might pick up another foul. The NFL and MLB definitely don't have this issue.

And did I mention that NBA refs were on the take? Should have.

[Matteus]

hmm, I think I've used my hyperbolic style a bit too much there, I was just trying to show you how a number of european basketball fans see it : as Kobe vs. LBJ, or Wade vs. Mello. Bear in mind that we don't get the coverage you guys do, we're currently limited to 3 PO games per week, and the tv channels often like to play LAL or CLE games.

But, I have over overexaggerated, it's a fact ;)

And I agree with you Darth, about teams winning championships. I, for one, will always remember the Pistons championship team, or the Spurs championship team exactly like that - as a team.

But the biggest NBA issue right now is a simple one...there is no consistency on what is a foul and what is not.

When your typical fans see traveling, double dribbling, and blatant fouls go uncalled, it makes the NBA look more like pro wrestling.

right on.

[NJCardFan]

Let me add another game for the Spurs under 80:

Mavs-85 Spurs-73

[booman141]

Something to love about the NBA:

The Spurs are DONE.

hooray


(bitter Suns fan? You betcha! lol)

[booman141]

Did you guys catch that Elbow that Dwight Howard threw in the game tonight?

That was vicious. See ya dwight, enjoy your suspension.

That was the worst I've seen since JR Reid threw an elbow straight into AC Green's grill, knocking out 2 of his teeth.

Rhondo taking Miller's head off in the Celts/Bulls game was pretty bad too, also not called flagrant.

Why would I not be surprised if Stern doesn't suspend either of them? Oh wait their name isn't Duncan or James so there might be a chance.

PS Stan Vangundy is the biggest ****** in basketball, not counting his ****** brother who, unfortunately is in the broadcast booth.

[Harmon]

Something to love about the NBA:

The Spurs are DONE.

hooray


(bitter Suns fan? You betcha! lol) I'm Really mad because I know that the Better team did NOT win. the spurs are the best team in the league over the last 10 years. we will be back next year.

[Darth Llama]

Let me add another game for the Spurs under 80:

Mavs-85 Spurs-73

Sorry NJ, but it's your type of thinking that's killing the NBA. The league keeps changing rules because fans are "bored" if the game isn't 120-119 and it's a load of crap. They have changed so many rules to speed up the game and get scoring up. The 3 in the key, the 8 second rule, numerous changes to fouls, it's ridiculous.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, I certainly don't mean to, but it's a sore spot with me. I'm so tired of people crying over low scoring games and the NBA trying to pander to that issue. As for games being more high scoring in the 80's where exactly are you getting that? If you look only at the big teams you might think that. The "Showtime Lakers" averaged 115 points per game from 1980-1989 and that was one of the best scoring averages in NBA history. No team averaged that much this year (of course) but it's silly to expect that. This year in the NBA there were 13 teams that averaged 100 or more points per game. That's a lot of scoring. In fact, 13 teams over 100pts per game ties last year as the highest scoring season in the last decade. If anything, scoring is on a very sharp incline over the last several years.

To say the NBA is boring just because a few playoff teams struggled to score is silly. There is a lot more to the game then how many points were scored, the problem is that's all modern fans care about. You're complaining on one hand about fundamentals and team basketball and then saying it's because teams don't score enough, that argument doesn't work. Solid fundamental teams play solid defense. Instead of crediting the effort of the teams that held their opponents to those poor efforts, you're using those poor efforts as the norm and using it to argue against the NBA in general and that just isn't accurate IMO. I won't argue that the officiating sucks in the NBA. It's terrible, the officiating is the one thing that most threatens to ruin the league. The NBA has many problems, but scoring definitely isn't one of them.

[UNOPrivateer85]

so people are saying they want more defense, but are complaining about the teams that scored less than 70 or 80 points? they scored few points because of defense!

[kjbad]

Did you guys catch that Elbow that Dwight Howard threw in the game tonight?

That was vicious. See ya dwight, enjoy your suspension.

That was the worst I've seen since JR Reid threw an elbow straight into AC Green's grill, knocking out 2 of his teeth.

Rhondo taking Miller's head off in the Celts/Bulls game was pretty bad too, also not called flagrant.

Why would I not be surprised if Stern doesn't suspend either of them? Oh wait their name isn't Duncan or James so there might be a chance.

PS Stan Vangundy is the biggest ****** in basketball, not counting his ****** brother who, unfortunately is in the broadcast booth.

Rondo's foul changed the outcome of the game, and it would have been even uglier if Miller couldn't come back and, per the rules, Doc Rivers got to choose who shot the free throws for CHI. The refs probably thought Miller flopped until they saw the blood...

Dwight Howard, by the way, will get his. Commissioner Stern was in ORL and watched the game from the suites, so he was an eyewitness to that elbow Howard threw. If he doesn't suspend him a game, every PHX Suns fan should write this clown a letter asking why Stoudemire and Diaw were suspended 2 years ago and Dwight Howard wasn't.

[kjbad]

Sorry NJ, but it's your type of thinking that's killing the NBA. The league keeps changing rules because fans are "bored" if the game isn't 120-119 and it's a load of crap. They have changed so many rules to speed up the game and get scoring up. The 3 in the key, the 8 second rule, numerous changes to fouls, it's ridiculous.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, I certainly don't mean to, but it's a sore spot with me. I'm so tired of people crying over low scoring games and the NBA trying to pander to that issue. As for games being more high scoring in the 80's where exactly are you getting that? If you look only at the big teams you might think that. The "Showtime Lakers" averaged 115 points per game from 1980-1989 and that was one of the best scoring averages in NBA history. No team averaged that much this year (of course) but it's silly to expect that. This year in the NBA there were 13 teams that averaged 100 or more points per game. That's a lot of scoring. In fact, 13 teams over 100pts per game ties last year as the highest scoring season in the last decade. If anything, scoring is on a very sharp incline over the last several years.

To say the NBA is boring just because a few playoff teams struggled to score is silly. There is a lot more to the game then how many points were scored, the problem is that's all modern fans care about. You're complaining on one hand about fundamentals and team basketball and then saying it's because teams don't score enough, that argument doesn't work. Solid fundamental teams play solid defense. Instead of crediting the effort of the teams that held their opponents to those poor efforts, you're using those poor efforts as the norm and using it to argue against the NBA in general and that just isn't accurate IMO. I won't argue that the officiating sucks in the NBA. It's terrible, the officiating is the one thing that most threatens to ruin the league. The NBA has many problems, but scoring definitely isn't one of them.

To a typical Suns fan, the NBA is boring without the 7-seconds-or-less offense we were used to seeing every night. Teams used to get geared up to play PHX because they actually wanted to prove they could play our style of ball, and for a while PHX was a huge draw in road games because of it. The Suns never did win a title, but people will remember them for daring to be different in league that rewards slow, plodding gameplay.

[Darth Llama]

To a typical Suns fan, the NBA is boring without the 7-seconds-or-less offense we were used to seeing every night. Teams used to get geared up to play PHX because they actually wanted to prove they could play our style of ball, and for a while PHX was a huge draw in road games because of it. The Suns never did win a title, but people will remember them for daring to be different in league that rewards slow, plodding gameplay.

Yes, and all the Suns did was copy the Sacramento Kings before them. The Suns though, like the Kings were not good basketball team in any area other then scoring and between them won a grand total of zero titles. The original argument was that teams that score low are doing so because they are not talented teams or are not fundamentally sound. In reality, it's the teams that score tons of points that under it all aren't good teams. Give me a team that holds it's opponent to 80 over a team that scores 110 any day. The Suns team that went to the finals against the Bulls was head and shoulders superior to any rendition of the Steve Nash era Suns. That team was far more well rounded, better defensively and was a great rebounding team. Good teams don't need to score 110 points every night to win.

[kjbad]

Yes, and all the Suns did was copy the Sacramento Kings before them. The Suns though, like the Kings were not good basketball team in any area other then scoring and between them won a grand total of zero titles. The original argument was that teams that score low are doing so because they are not talented teams or are not fundamentally sound. In reality, it's the teams that score tons of points that under it all aren't good teams. Give me a team that holds it's opponent to 80 over a team that scores 110 any day. The Suns team that went to the finals against the Bulls was head and shoulders superior to any rendition of the Steve Nash era Suns. That team was far more well rounded, better defensively and was a great rebounding team. Good teams don't need to score 110 points every night to win.

Ah, but the NBA isn't marketing the game to folks like you and me...they're going after the hippity-hoppity street ballers and the And One crowd that spends $300 on shoes and jerseys. Those are the guys that they want - meanwhile, all the celebs pack the courtside seats that the average fan can't afford. At least that the ideal world for David Stern.

The Spurs were branded the most boring championship team ever -- for playing fundamental basketball. And the entire Eastern conference was unwatchable because no one consistently played a reckless style and won. Blame the Suns and Lakers for that too, I guess.

[NJCardFan]

Yes, and all the Suns did was copy the Sacramento Kings before them. The Suns though, like the Kings were not good basketball team in any area other then scoring and between them won a grand total of zero titles. The original argument was that teams that score low are doing so because they are not talented teams or are not fundamentally sound. In reality, it's the teams that score tons of points that under it all aren't good teams. Give me a team that holds it's opponent to 80 over a team that scores 110 any day. The Suns team that went to the finals against the Bulls was head and shoulders superior to any rendition of the Steve Nash era Suns. That team was far more well rounded, better defensively and was a great rebounding team. Good teams don't need to score 110 points every night to win.

To be fair, Sacramento got royally screwed in the 2002 conference finals.

[crdnl85]

I have been a diehard Suns fan for over 40 years.I used to go to 10-12 games a season,but i haven't been to one in the last three years.If they ever do get back to playing defense,i might go again,but not unless they do.:grrrrrr:

[booman141]

http://www.nba.com/2009/playoffs2009/04/29/magic.howard.ap/index.html

Howard suspended one game. It must be nice to be one of Sterns 'guys'.

1 game is an absolute joke. SO nearly taking someone's head off with a full windup, swing and follow through Elbow warrants the same penalty as a bench player putting their toe on the court, or committing a hard flagrant foul.

David Stern is the most unapologetic, unfair, unethical, favorite playing, biased, slimeball that has ever been allowed to be commisioner of the NBA.

Oh and PS they also issued NO penalty for Rhondo.

Just another reason why the NBA sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjYuOG1gMDw

[Darth Llama]

To be fair, Sacramento got royally screwed in the 2002 conference finals.

No, they didn't. There were bad calls against both teams in that series, it went both ways. The Kings are just crybabies that can't let it go.

[Darth Llama]

http://www.nba.com/2009/playoffs2009/04/29/magic.howard.ap/index.html

Howard suspended one game. It must be nice to be one of Sterns 'guys'.

1 game is an absolute joke. SO nearly taking someone's head off with a full windup, swing and follow through Elbow warrants the same penalty as a bench player putting their toe on the court, or committing a hard flagrant foul.

David Stern is the most unapologetic, unfair, unethical, favorite playing, biased, slimeball that has ever been allowed to be commisioner of the NBA.

Oh and PS they also issued NO penalty for Rhondo.

Just another reason why the NBA sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjYuOG1gMDw

Very subjective though isn't it? I have to think that if Howard wanted to punch Dalenbert that he would have connected with it. Instead he swung through and his elbow hit Samuel. You see players do that all the time, they grab a rebound and they swing their elbows to clear space, it's a legal move as long as you don't actually hit someone. Sorry, but that doesn't look to me like Howard intended to hit him or "take his head off." I'm not saying he should have done that, he shouldn't have, but I don't think the intent was what you thought. Howard is not a dirty player, never has been.

He was trying to clear the guy off of him, he made contact, you can't do that. If anything, I think 1 game was a little harsh. A flagrant foul would have been sufficient for that IMO. That suspension is a 1 game swing in the series, Stern basically just gave Philly a free win. That's pretty steep if you ask me.

[booman141]

Very subjective though isn't it? I have to think that if Howard wanted to punch Dalenbert that he would have connected with it. Instead he swung through and his elbow hit Samuel. You see players do that all the time, they grab a rebound and they swing their elbows to clear space, it's a legal move as long as you don't actually hit someone. Sorry, but that doesn't look to me like Howard intended to hit him or "take his head off." I'm not saying he should have done that, he shouldn't have, but I don't think the intent was what you thought. Howard is not a dirty player, never has been.

He was trying to clear the guy off of him, he made contact, you can't do that. If anything, I think 1 game was a little harsh. A flagrant foul would have been sufficient for that IMO. That suspension is a 1 game swing in the series, Stern basically just gave Philly a free win. That's pretty steep if you ask me.

Wow that's madness darth, guess we just see it differently. To me he completely intended to elbow him and acted totally guilty afterward.

IMO he knew exactly what he was doing but I'm not going to get in an argument about it with you. We just see it differently.

[Darth Llama]

Wow that's madness darth, guess we just see it differently. To me he completely intended to elbow him and acted totally guilty afterward.

IMO he knew exactly what he was doing but I'm not going to get in an argument about it with you. We just see it differently.

Just to clarify Booman, I'm not trying to be argumentative or egg you on. You can't hear tone of voice in my post, but if you could, it would be totally mellow. I respect your opinion and I hope you know that by now.

The truth is, I don't know what the intent was. Maybe it's dillusion on my part because I don't want to believe it. I like Dwight Howard, that dude has always come across to me as a class act, maybe I was wrong. It's kind of hard to tell from the Youtube Video, but he's just not the type of player I see doing that. Maybe it was malicious, if so he deserves a suspension. I still don't think it's as bad as say the Robert Horry hip check on Steve Nash. I'll concede my point a little and say I don't know about that call. I understand your view and respect it, I'm just not use to thinking of that guy as dirty. I generally oppose a suspension in the playoffs unless it's just too flagrant to ignore. Maybe that shot was, I don't know. Maybe it's Karma paying him back for this move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGhAonmMCR8) that actually went as a tech against Pau Gasol.

It's just a shame that it will have such a huge effect on an otherwise very entertaining series. At least we'll still get a game 7 with both teams at full roster.

[booman141]

Just to clarify Booman, I'm not trying to be argumentative or egg you on. You can't hear tone of voice in my post, but if you could, it would be totally mellow. I respect your opinion and I hope you know that by now.

The truth is, I don't know what the intent was. Maybe it's dillusion on my part because I don't want to believe it. I like Dwight Howard, that dude has always come across to me as a class act, maybe I was wrong. It's kind of hard to tell from the Youtube Video, but he's just not the type of player I see doing that. Maybe it was malicious, if so he deserves a suspension. I still don't think it's as bad as say the Robert Horry hip check on Steve Nash. I'll concede my point a little and say I don't know about that call. I understand your view and respect it, I'm just not use to thinking of that guy as dirty. I generally oppose a suspension in the playoffs unless it's just too flagrant to ignore. Maybe that shot was, I don't know. Maybe it's Karma paying him back for this move (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGhAonmMCR8) that actually went as a tech against Pau Gasol.

It's just a shame that it will have such a huge effect on an otherwise very entertaining series. At least we'll still get a game 7 with both teams at full roster.

Dude you are fine, I think I'm the one that had tone but the only thing I meant is that I know ur really passionate about the NBA and I'm just not so there's no point in us debating.. lol

I'm just a casual suns fan at best and u cant hold that against me cuz I was born here!

We are always all good dude. Mad respect.

[booman141]

Dude that play is rediculous, the one against Gasol that you linked..

Seriously thats ******** hilarious, how does that call go against Pao?

And I hate Pao!

lol

I'm with you man, I've always like Dwight Howard but judging by those two plays he seems like he's kinda turning into a sneaky little punk like Bruce BOwen or JR Reid...

I have nothing against him, again I've always liked him, but dude, you already are bigger stronger and tougher than everyone else on the floor, u dont need to be dirty too...

[BigDinGlenDale]

I just wanted to say that I haven't paid much attention to the NBA, until now. I've been watching the Bulls/Celtics games and they are fantastic, IMO. The Bulls have a lot of heart.

[Darth Llama]

Dude that play is rediculous, the one against Gasol that you linked..

Seriously thats ******** hilarious, how does that call go against Pao?

And I hate Pao!

lol

I'm with you man, I've always like Dwight Howard but judging by those two plays he seems like he's kinda turning into a sneaky little punk like Bruce BOwen or JR Reid...

I have nothing against him, again I've always liked him, but dude, you already are bigger stronger and tougher than everyone else on the floor, u dont need to be dirty too...

I didn't watch the entire game where Howard threw the elbow, but I have read a few sources saying that Dalembert was egging him on the entire game and elbowing him in the back. Howard finally got sick of it and retaliated, I don't know if that's true or not. I didn't see anything dirty from Dalembert in the clip I saw. The one against Pau was silly, but at least it wasn't anything that could hurt someone like this was.

[NJCardFan]

Being the fair and balanced guy I am, I have to admit the Bulls/Celtics series is probably the best playoff series I've ever seen.

[Darth Llama]

Being the fair and balanced guy I am, I have to admit the Bulls/Celtics series is probably the best playoff series I've ever seen.

Game 7 was a disappointment, but compared to the rest of the series, the bar was probably set unrealistically high. I was going for the Bulls since I'm a Laker fan and hate the Celtics, but Chicago was terrible in game 7. Still, it was a great series, one of the best ever without a doubt.