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Thread: Trade Fitz

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    Why the personal attacks vs BirdCageleader? This poster proposed a trade based on the Rams needing a #1 WR for Bradford and suggested Fitz for their two #1's. I looked at that proposal and didn't think the Rams would make it---but I didn't bash the poster for the idea. He is only doing what we all are doing---playing GM with our favorite team.

    A week ago would anyone have guessed that any team would surrender a #2 and a conditional high pick next year for the 49ers Smith? Especially since it looked as if he was going to be released to clear his salary? Crazy trades do happen even if rare (Ditka and the Saints trading their ENTIRE draft class PLUS a #1 and #3 the next year for Ricky Williams, Herschel Walker trade from Dallas to Minnesota, eight players from the LA Rams to the Chicago Cardinals for Ollie Matson, Falcons acquired the No. 6 overall pick from Cleveland to draft Julio Jones for a package of five draft picks, including
    Atlanta's No. 27 overall pick in the first round this year and the team's first-round pick in 2012.)

    Who knows what is coming next from teams looking for relevance and a missing piece of the puzzle---think Jerry Jones desperate to make a splash before the national media and pulling something (maybe he'd trade us Romo for Fitz and then move up in the draft and pick Geno for his new QB to compete with RGIII?) Now there's a trade to bash someone over for posting. LOL.
    Personally, I'm not attacking anyone but I am stating that the idea makes no sense this year. Trading him would be a BIGGER cap hit than paying him to play. That makes no sense to me at all. Next year makes much more sense from a salary cap perspective.

    Please review: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-c...ry-fitzgerald/ and read http://prod.www.nfl.com/news/story/0...-for-cardinals for a more complete breakdown of the numbers.

    If a person can show a way to do the trade that makes sense AND make the cap numbers work based on Larry's actual contract, that would be very interesting reading! I can't find a way to do it, myself.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamcardsfan View Post
    Sorry to say it...but heading into a rebuilding process...WHICH WE ARE...and trying to rebuild an offense where 8/11 players need to be replaced...and making the centerpiece a 30 year old WR is foolhardy.
    We don't need to replace 8/11 players. We need to replace TWO. QB and LT. Sure, we could USE a shiny, new SILB, and it would be NICE to upgrade the RG. And boy some stud edge rushers at OLB would be phenomenal. But those aren't fatal flaws. We NEED a QB and a LT. Once those pieces are in place, this roster, as constructed, could contend as long as the defense doesn't regress (an ENITRELY different thread and unfortunately something that is highly likely.)

    That's why the play is to sign a FA LT (Albert?) and draft Geno at 7. Then, you wait to see who falls to 38 (Te'o? Minter? Maybe positional value pushes down Cooper? Who knows?) There are NO FA QB worth signing. There are NO LT or QB in the draft at 38 who will make a difference. The ONLY way to fix our two fatal flaws is to go LT in FA and QB at 7 (Geno.)

  3. #23
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    While appreciate the creative natural of suggesting trades moving Fitz should not be one of them unless the value is to great to ignore... For example if the Vikings where to give us there 1st Round Pick this year and LT Matt Kalil then I'd make that deal but even the Vikings who probably value Fitz more than any other team would not want to do that deal.

    We are closer than most think. LT and quality QB play and we are a playoff contender again.

    We are not like a Cleveland or Jacksonville that have a roster of Swiss cheese.

    Restructure Kolb sign Albert and we should be good to go.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    We don't need to replace 8/11 players. We need to replace TWO. QB and LT. Sure, we could USE a shiny, new SILB, and it would be NICE to upgrade the RG. And boy some stud edge rushers at OLB would be phenomenal. But those aren't fatal flaws. We NEED a QB and a LT. Once those pieces are in place, this roster, as constructed, could contend as long as the defense doesn't regress (an ENITRELY different thread and unfortunately something that is highly likely.)

    That's why the play is to sign a FA LT (Albert?) and draft Geno at 7. Then, you wait to see who falls to 38 (Te'o? Minter? Maybe positional value pushes down Cooper? Who knows?) There are NO FA QB worth signing. There are NO LT or QB in the draft at 38 who will make a difference. The ONLY way to fix our two fatal flaws is to go LT in FA and QB at 7 (Geno.)
    We need to replace 8/11 players on offense alone. We need a 2 Qbs, a LT, a center, a RG, 2 Running Backs, a TE and a legit #3 receiver. None of those spots are filled with players that inspire any kind of confidence in their ability to play at a high level. All of those players would have a hard time finding a starting spot on most other NFL teams. And that 8/11 is assuming that College is servicable and Floyd is going to break out next year.

    QB- Everyone currently on our roster is terrible. Kolb is the best of a bad bunch...and is being paid like an elite talent...which he is not. All should be cut and 3 new QB's should be brought in.

    2 RB's- Neither Beanie nor Williams can stay on the field, and neither has done enough to say "they are THE guy...stick with them". Beanie should be cut. At least one running back should be drafted to compete/rotate with Williams/Powell/LSH.

    LT- Terrible. Potter is better than Brown...but Brown is the worst LT in the NFL. This is probably priority #2 behind QB.

    OC- Sendlein is at his best an average center with no run blocking skills. Again....he has shown nothing to make us say "thats our guy". There are centers we could get in rounds 4 or 5 this year that would immediatley start over Lyle.

    RG- Snyder is the worst OG in the NFL. He should have never been signed in the first place, but he should be replaced ASAP.

    TE- Housler could still turn into something, but he can't block and hasnt shown enough as a weapon to be considered "the answer" at TE. There are FA that would be better. While I admit replacing him is way down on the priority list....its not out of the question.

    #3 WR- Roberts is pretty good. This would be the one guy I would say has EARNED more time to develop and the chance to play with a good QB. I (and probably BA) would prefer a little more top end speed in our #3 WR to compliment Fitz and Floyd, but Roberts does not NEED to be replaced.

    So...again...while I realize that 8/11 spots will not be replaced in one offseason...they WILL eventually be replaced. If you are high on Roberts then lower that number to 7/11...but throw in the need for a quality backup QB and its back to 8.

    Some of you seem to forget we were 14th out of 16 in the NFC. We were one dropped pass in the 1st game of the season (playing a rookie in his first game ever..and he was in our house) from going 0-6 in our division. The St. Louis Rams CRUSHED us twice last year......

    But you're right....were right on the brink!!! We're two players away from contending!!

  5. #25
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    Man Adam are you being a downer cheer up the world is not nearly as gloomy as it seems.

    Albert in free agency solves blindside protection.

    This moves Levi to RG where I think most think he will be a stud.

    That is how one move dominoes into fixing our OL.

    I am still hoping we draft Brian Schwenke to further fix our line. If not Lyle wil be back and is at least average.

    RB will be solved in the draft as will most glaring holes.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamcardsfan View Post
    We need to replace 8/11 players on offense alone. We need a 2 Qbs, a LT, a center, a RG, 2 Running Backs, a TE and a legit #3 receiver. None of those spots are filled with players that inspire any kind of confidence in their ability to play at a high level. All of those players would have a hard time finding a starting spot on most other NFL teams. And that 8/11 is assuming that College is servicable and Floyd is going to break out next year.

    QB- Everyone currently on our roster is terrible. Kolb is the best of a bad bunch...and is being paid like an elite talent...which he is not. All should be cut and 3 new QB's should be brought in.

    2 RB's- Neither Beanie nor Williams can stay on the field, and neither has done enough to say "they are THE guy...stick with them". Beanie should be cut. At least one running back should be drafted to compete/rotate with Williams/Powell/LSH.

    LT- Terrible. Potter is better than Brown...but Brown is the worst LT in the NFL. This is probably priority #2 behind QB.

    OC- Sendlein is at his best an average center with no run blocking skills. Again....he has shown nothing to make us say "thats our guy". There are centers we could get in rounds 4 or 5 this year that would immediatley start over Lyle.

    RG- Snyder is the worst OG in the NFL. He should have never been signed in the first place, but he should be replaced ASAP.

    TE- Housler could still turn into something, but he can't block and hasnt shown enough as a weapon to be considered "the answer" at TE. There are FA that would be better. While I admit replacing him is way down on the priority list....its not out of the question.

    #3 WR- Roberts is pretty good. This would be the one guy I would say has EARNED more time to develop and the chance to play with a good QB. I (and probably BA) would prefer a little more top end speed in our #3 WR to compliment Fitz and Floyd, but Roberts does not NEED to be replaced.

    So...again...while I realize that 8/11 spots will not be replaced in one offseason...they WILL eventually be replaced. If you are high on Roberts then lower that number to 7/11...but throw in the need for a quality backup QB and its back to 8.

    Some of you seem to forget we were 14th out of 16 in the NFC. We were one dropped pass in the 1st game of the season (playing a rookie in his first game ever..and he was in our house) from going 0-6 in our division. The St. Louis Rams CRUSHED us twice last year......

    But you're right....were right on the brink!!! We're two players away from contending!!
    I think the problem with your 8/11 premise is that you are overestimating the importance of certain positions, while simultaneously overstating the "incompetence" of certain players and/or conveniently overlooking extenuating circumstances.

    QB- We don't need TWO QB. We need a legit starter. Even a guy like Hoyer is fine as a #2. Teams with ANY legit talent at QB2 either trade the guy or don't realize what they have.

    RB- We need our guys to get healthy. I can see the argument for letting Beanie go. I can. But who knows what he could do in a new system that actually commits to running the ball, behind an improved Line (IF he stays healthy.) WAAAY too soon to give up on Ryan Williams.

    WR- We are fine. With a good QB, this will be an excellent group.

    TE- Housler DOES need to improve his blocking. With 4 coaches who now have experience in coaching OL, we will all see if he can get better. He can certainly be a playmaker, ESPECIALLY with a good QB.

    LT- Definitely need a LT
    LG- Colledge is fine
    C- Sendlein might not ever be an All-Pro, but he can be a serviceable Center as long as there aren't breakdowns around him.
    RG- Snyder sucks.
    RT- Massie is going be fine

    Defense is fine, except for SILB. Sure, we could use an upgrade at both OLB spots, and we need to start looking for a young SS, but these are tweaks.

    To say we NEED 8/11 guys to contend is simply ridiculous. We NEED 8/11 guys to be an absolute juggernaut with zero weaknesses that would beat every team 73-0. But to "contend" (which to me means playoff caliber team that could make some noise if they gel at the right time-- like every SB champ the last few years) we NEED one QB, and one LT. And it would be NICE to get rid of Snyder and upgrade RG and get rid of Lenon and upgrade SILB.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 03-03-2013 at 08:06 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    I think the problem with your 8/11 premise is that you are overestimating the importance of certain positions, while simultaneously overstating the "incompetence" of certain players and/or conveniently overlooking extenuating circumstances.

    QB- We don't need TWO QB. We need a legit starter. Even a guy like Hoyer is fine as a #2. Teams with ANY legit talent at QB2 either trade the guy or don't realize what they have.

    RB- We need our guys to get healthy. I can see the argument for letting Beanie go. I can. But who knows what he could do in a new system that actually commits to running the ball, behind an improved Line (IF he stays healthy.) WAAAY too soon to give up on Ryan Williams.

    WR- We are fine. With a good QB, this will be an excellent group.

    TE- Housler DOES need to improve his blocking. With 4 coaches who now have experience in coaching OL, we will all see if he can get better. He can certainly be a playmaker, ESPECIALLY with a good QB.

    LT- Definitely need a LT
    LG- Colledge is fine
    C- Sendlein might not ever be an All-Pro, but he can be a serviceable Center as long as there aren't breakdowns around him.
    RG- Snyder sucks.
    RT- Massie is going be fine

    Defense is fine, except for SILB. Sure, we could use an upgrade at both OLB spots, and we need to start looking for a young SS, but these are tweaks.

    To say we NEED 8/11 guys to contend is simply ridiculous. We NEED 8/11 guys to be an absolute juggernaut with zero weaknesses that would beat every team 73-0. But to "contend" (which to me means playoff caliber team that could make some noise if they gel at the right time-- like every SB champ the last few years) we NEED one QB, and one LT. And it would be NICE to get rid of Snyder and upgrade RG and get rid of Lenon and upgrade SILB.
    I simply disagree. I do not see us contending for a SB with a bunch of below average starters.

    Look at every team in the playoffs last year. Go position by position on offense....and outside of Fitz....who would you say.."The Cardinals are better at that position"?

    Like I said...there are some guys with potential (massie, roberts, williams, housler)...but we would be insane to pass up a clear upgrade if they were available.

    There are only a few players on this team who's jobs should be safe...and most are on defense. I'm not saying we need to go out and sign 8 new starters via FA. I'm saying that we need real competition at most spots...and I think you would be surprised how many of our current players could be beat out by rookies/FA.

    Just as an example...if we bring 5 new lineman into camp via FA or the draft...I would guess we would end up with at 3 new starters. (LT, RG, OC). If we are happy with "serviceable" players and don't push them....then we will keep the same lousy production.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamcardsfan View Post
    I simply disagree. I do not see us contending for a SB with a bunch of below average starters.

    Look at every team in the playoffs last year. Go position by position on offense....and outside of Fitz....who would you say.."The Cardinals are better at that position"?

    Like I said...there are some guys with potential (massie, roberts, williams, housler)...but we would be insane to pass up a clear upgrade if they were available.

    There are only a few players on this team who's jobs should be safe...and most are on defense. I'm not saying we need to go out and sign 8 new starters via FA. I'm saying that we need real competition at most spots...and I think you would be surprised how many of our current players could be beat out by rookies/FA.

    Just as an example...if we bring 5 new lineman into camp via FA or the draft...I would guess we would end up with at 3 new starters. (LT, RG, OC). If we are happy with "serviceable" players and don't push them....then we will keep the same lousy production.
    You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that a great QB solves a LOT of problems. Get the QB and you will be amazed at how good every one else suddenly looks. And get him a LT to keep him clean.

    The good news is, with some aggressiveness by this FO, we CAN take care of both issues rather simply: sign a LT in FA (Long, Albert) and draft Geno Smith. Problem solved. The bonus is that there is likely to be some good value at 38 for an upgrade at one of the spots you speak of. Te'o, Ogletree, or Minter could be there at 38. And if everything breaks right, and we have another DeCastro-type drop for Warmack once teams make their boards and adjust for positional value, there is even a chance that Cooper drops to 38. Not likely, but there's a chance. If DeCastro went 24th, so too might Warmack. And then you only need to sweat 13 spots for Cooper.

  9. #29
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    A bunch of below average starters?

    Levi Brown missed last season he is back and was our best offense lineman. Now as a LT he is below average but will you dispute he at the minimum will be average or an upgrade at Guard?

    Sedlein below average no he was average but got hurt.

    Two players back that will upgrade the line.

    Sign Albert at LT and we are good at our weakness area.

    MASSIE will be better this year yet another upgrade.

    Tom Brady probably would have struggled behind our line last year.

    That brings us to QB our 2nd worst spot well we are not going to be able to upgrade since that player is not available.

    SILB and another OLB is the next area one will be filled this draft.

    With basically one free agent signing, draft, and the injured players back this a significantly improved roster.

    Throw in much better coaching staff and there are very realistic reasons for hope.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ako_77 View Post
    That brings us to QB our 2nd worst spot well we are not going to be able to upgrade since that player is not available.
    You're underestimating Geno Smith.

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