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Thread: At what price tag do we move on from C Campbell?

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    He had arguably his best season as a Cardinal, and shows no signs of slowing down at age 30.

    $20M a year???? Whoever came up with that figure?

    $10M a year is likely the line in the sand. CC's agent is doing his duty and asking for more, Keim is doing his duty and saying all the right things to project leverage and willingness to move on. This is all Negotiating 101.

    Again, all it takes is one irresponsible team to money whip a guy and it blows all things rational out of the water, but the smart money continues to be on a (roughly) 3yr/$30M deal-- in that neighborhood-- to bring back the one guy on the DL they can't afford to lose.
    WVF, my bad. Something was lost in translation. I did not mean 20 million per year. I meant a 20 year old. Aka 20-somethings.

    If I had unlimited cap $Ms, I'd pay $10 million guaranteed for 2 years, plus 1 option year at half that price if his health is ok. Or 2 years only for $8M per, and some cash up front and at the end. CC will take what is offered. 2 years and "see ya" check is a good deal for all sides.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    I don't think the team is good or bad. I think the team is what the record said it was. Good special teams play is also the result of a deep roster. You can point to missed FG and bad punts but we also can't cover because of a lack of quality personal. I also think you can't disregard our D's inability to keep running backs out of the end zone and the 3rd down completions against it. It's nice to say we were 2nd in yards allowed but we were 14th in points allowed. I go back to the first Pats game. They converted on third down all night long. Go back to the first Seattle game. Best defensive game of the year. However their d in spite of being on the field all game stoped us cold when the field shrunk. Our D wasn't so good at that with the exception of that game.

    I think Tony Jefferson was one of the best players on our d this year. I think we suck at the 2nd CB spot and I'm very suspect of Mathieu being healthy and productive for a 16 game season. We still could use a good inside linebacker. Much tougher to get if we sign a cap killing deal with CC and pay Chandler 15 million plus. I'm suspect of our O without Grisham. Is Brown going to be healthy? We got every single once out of Johnson and Fitzgerald this year and our O was extremely inconsistent.

    There are a lot of pieces here and the reality of this team is the D was not great on third down conversions, the O was not great at converting 3rd downs and those two things overexposed a thin roster that had pretty bad punt coverage not to mention we couldn't punt or kick field goals.
    The numbers don't entirely back your fears.

    Arizona was #3 in defensive DVOA. #1 in yards allowed per drive. 9th in 3 and outs. 14th in 3rd down conversion % against. 9th in 3rd down conversion % on offense. They gave up 16 rushing TD (same total as Seattle, one more than Atlanta.)

    Both Kevin Minter and Deone Bucannon are "good ILB" for what they are tasked with in the Bettcher scheme. Minter took way too much heat from fans this year. He actually had a really solid season. Bucannon had the worse season of the two, so if you are suggesting Arizona draft a true WILB to replace Bucannon, I would say the team would be creating another problem (where does Buc play? SS? FS?) to try to solve one.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    The numbers don't entirely back your fears.

    Arizona was #3 in defensive DVOA. #1 in yards allowed per drive. 9th in 3 and outs. 14th in 3rd down conversion % against. 9th in 3rd down conversion % on offense. They gave up 16 rushing TD (same total as Seattle, one more than Atlanta.)

    Both Kevin Minter and Deone Bucannon are "good ILB" for what they are tasked with in the Bettcher scheme. Minter took way too much heat from fans this year. He actually had a really solid season. Bucannon had the worse season of the two, so if you are suggesting Arizona draft a true WILB to replace Bucannon, I would say the team would be creating another problem (where does Buc play? SS? FS?) to try to solve one.
    Tied with Seattle and one less than Atlanta was tied for 22nd. You point out exactly what I'm talking about. Mediocre. 14th in points allowed and 9th in points scored. Two pretty mediocre units by NFL SB team standards. Seattle last year was a very mediocre NFL team because there D had key injuries and so did their O. Even so they won the division easily.

    Take a look at the teams that went to the SB the last 2 years. If you think we have a SB unit on either side of the ball I disagree strongly. We have a team that's capable of making the playoffs or winning 8 games. It's mediocre on both sides of the ball. It's not a SB quality team as it's currently made up. That's with all hands on deck healthy. We got blown out 2 years ago against the SB runner up. The sad truth is they were a much better constructed team. They physically malled us on both sides of the ball. It wasn't special teams or Palmer choking it was a much deeper better constructed team. That team lost a couple of players and is now the same pile of mediocre that we are.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTMEIN View Post
    WVF, my bad. Something was lost in translation. I did not mean 20 million per year. I meant a 20 year old. Aka 20-somethings.

    If I had unlimited cap $Ms, I'd pay $10 million guaranteed for 2 years, plus 1 option year at half that price if his health is ok. Or 2 years only for $8M per, and some cash up front and at the end. CC will take what is offered. 2 years and "see ya" check is a good deal for all sides.
    Well, say "goodbye" because that's not where the market will be.

    The Bennett deal in Seattle is the floor for CC.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    I don't think the team is good or bad. I think the team is what the record said it was. Good special teams play is also the result of a deep roster. You can point to missed FG and bad punts but we also can't cover because of a lack of quality personal. I also think you can't disregard our D's inability to keep running backs out of the end zone and the 3rd down completions against it. It's nice to say we were 2nd in yards allowed but we were 14th in points allowed. I go back to the first Pats game. They converted on third down all night long. Go back to the first Seattle game. Best defensive game of the year. However their d in spite of being on the field all game stoped us cold when the field shrunk. Our D wasn't so good at that with the exception of that game.

    I think Tony Jefferson was one of the best players on our d this year. I think we suck at the 2nd CB spot and I'm very suspect of Mathieu being healthy and productive for a 16 game season. We still could use a good inside linebacker. Much tougher to get if we sign a cap killing deal with CC and pay Chandler 15 million plus. I'm suspect of our O without Grisham. Is Brown going to be healthy? We got every single once out of Johnson and Fitzgerald this year and our O was extremely inconsistent.

    There are a lot of pieces here and the reality of this team is the D was not great on third down conversions, the O was not great at converting 3rd downs and those two things overexposed a thin roster that had pretty bad punt coverage not to mention we couldn't punt or kick field goals.
    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    The numbers don't entirely back your fears.

    Arizona was #3 in defensive DVOA. #1 in yards allowed per drive. 9th in 3 and outs. 14th in 3rd down conversion % against. 9th in 3rd down conversion % on offense. They gave up 16 rushing TD (same total as Seattle, one more than Atlanta.)

    Both Kevin Minter and Deone Bucannon are "good ILB" for what they are tasked with in the Bettcher scheme. Minter took way too much heat from fans this year. He actually had a really solid season. Bucannon had the worse season of the two, so if you are suggesting Arizona draft a true WILB to replace Bucannon, I would say the team would be creating another problem (where does Buc play? SS? FS?) to try to solve one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Tied with Seattle and one less than Atlanta was tied for 22nd. You point out exactly what I'm talking about. Mediocre. 14th in points allowed and 9th in points scored. Two pretty mediocre units by NFL SB team standards. Seattle last year was a very mediocre NFL team because there D had key injuries and so did their O. Even so they won the division easily.

    Take a look at the teams that went to the SB the last 2 years. If you think we have a SB unit on either side of the ball I disagree strongly. We have a team that's capable of making the playoffs or winning 8 games. It's mediocre on both sides of the ball. It's not a SB quality team as it's currently made up. That's with all hands on deck healthy. We got blown out 2 years ago against the SB runner up. The sad truth is they were a much better constructed team. They physically malled us on both sides of the ball. It wasn't special teams or Palmer choking it was a much deeper better constructed team. That team lost a couple of players and is now the same pile of mediocre that we are.
    So if teams are playing at a "mediocre" level and one advances while the other does not, what is the deciding factor? I think you are diminishing what is trying to be said. All things being even on the offensive and defensive side of the ball, the differences between moving on and falling behind became our dismal special teams play. Yes...we could have scored another TD or stopped a drive or two, but when the game is in hand and we can't kick a chip shot field goal to win...that is problematic or worse, sub-par ST play puts you behind the 8 ball all throughout the game (the kick return for a TD in Minnesota comes to mind and let's not forget PP21s muffed punt going back to the playoff game against Carolina to start that avalanche).

    Our ST stunk last year and we can't over look the fact they were by far the biggest failure for our team.
    Last edited by boomer719; 02-17-2017 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer719 View Post
    So if teams are playing at a "mediocre" level and one advances while the other does not, what is the deciding factor? I think you are diminishing what is trying to be said. All things being even on the offensive and defensive side of the ball, the differences between moving on and falling behind became our dismal special teams play. Yes...we could have scored another TD or stopped a drive or two, but when the game is in hand and we can't kick a chip shot field goal to win...that is problematic or worse, sub-par ST play puts you behind the 8 ball all throughout the game (the kick return for a TD in Minnesota comes to mind and let's not forget PP21s muffed punt going back to the playoff game against Carolina to start that avalanche).

    Our ST stunk last year and we can't over look the fact they were by far the biggest failure for our team.
    Coverage teams are part of the roster. You can blame it all on coaching but it just might be that all those big returns are because are roster is to thin. When you pay a handful of guys big money it thins the roster. If you concentrate more money at the top which we will with a big deal for both Jones and Campbell our coverage teams will likely be worse not better.

    We didn't adequately replace our long snapper. Maybe we tried to solve the issue on the cheap?

    When you have a drunk WR drop third downs and we are punting from deeper back it changes field position. When you don't stop teams on third down it changes field position. Those things impact field position, TOP and winning and losing just like bad special teams.

    Our coverage has been awful, where do you think those 10 guys come from?

    You have to make the playoffs first but you have to have a fundamentally sound team to advance. The Cardinals are not a fundamental sound team. That doesn't mean we can't get into the playoffs in a pretty mediocre league. It means we can't advance.
    Last edited by Biggs; 02-17-2017 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #117
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    For the most part, this has been a very interesting thread. Lots of opinions as to why or why not.

    Back to the original question. What are you willing to pay to keep him? 10 million, 12 million....more?

    Early on in this thread, I suggested that we should probably move on because the price will be too high. There were more than a few that disagreed, and that's fine. I will admit, whether it would be a good thing or bad thing is borderline even in my thinking.

    If I had to guess, I'm thinking its gonna take 13 million. He had a good year, and just like us last year, there are many teams willing to pay a high price for a proven defensive lineman. I guess we'll see.

    Since this thread is so popular with differing views, maybe a poll should be taken. I would do it myself, but my last attempt at a poll ( not pole...lol ) got all messed up and was confusing.

    So if anyone out there that is more competent than I at creating polls, I would love to see it. Perhaps one with just what price you would pay to keep CC, or what price he will get on the open market.

    One thing for sure, SK has a big decision to make, and we won't know for a year or two if it was a good one.
    C:\Users\Tom\Desktop\cat A.jpg

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy-Canuck View Post
    Well, say "goodbye" because that's not where the market will be.

    The Bennett deal in Seattle is the floor for CC.
    Probably true.

    I proposed about 25 mil in total in two packages for two years. 5-8 mil is bonus and incentives. If SK can find a quality younger player for the same dollars, why not go with youth? That's my strategy. This is business. CC knows that too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTMEIN View Post
    Probably true.

    I proposed about 25 mil in total in two packages for two years. 5-8 mil is bonus and incentives. If SK can find a quality younger player for the same dollars, why not go with youth? That's my strategy. This is business. CC knows that too.
    Which "younger" player (for the same dollars) do you propose as a replacement for the 24th best player in the NFL?

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    Which "younger" player (for the same dollars) do you propose as a replacement for the 24th best player in the NFL?
    We carried 9 DL men last year on a team running a 3/4. Based on what we are hearing Chandler Jones is the priority and there is no noise at all regarding Campbell. Gunter and Nkemdiche are going to get more snaps next year. To many holes to little money to pay Campbell for a career year going into his 30's. Kiem is going to roll the dice with Nkemdiche and Gunter and hope a couple of other guys do the job in rotation. If it pays off he is going to look very smart.

    The Pats normally wouldn't go after an aging vet but Brady's window is closing and they are sitting on a ton of cap space. I'm betting the Pats sign him since they are sitting on a huge pile of cap space and have another SB window with Brady and are thin on the DL. If anyone is going to get Campbell at a discount I would bet on NE over the Cardinals.

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