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Thread: Will Palmer be back in 2018?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    The second half of the season when his numbers went up was largely a result of adjustments on the OL and reducing the downfield passing. We were using the TE because we had to. We were throwing a ton of short passes to Fitz and Johnson. The big downfield pass was limited when it was clear Brown and Floyd weren't part of the mix. It's also why his YPA were down significantly. Your assumption about the pressure being off doesn't take into consideration that there were significant adjustments to the O to compensate that were probably much more significant in his numbers going up.

    You're obsession with state of mind based on pressure completely dismisses thousands of other variables. You have to stop pretending that performance isn't impacted by a team concept. There is something called film that teams use every week to adjust both their defense and O based on opponent and variables like injuries and available personal.

    If in a tight game Palmer hits Floyd in the chest for a first down and Floyd drops it, Palmer didn't choke. His stats show an incompletion on third down. If Fitz puts his body at risk because Palmer threw a ball that brought him into contact and he adjusted to get it, it shows up as a completion.
    Pay attention. I've stated many times on here that David Johnson helped CP immensely down the stretch. Defense had to account for him.

    And you just had to watch the games to see CP was not hitting the long passes. Deep into the season he had the worst stats in the league throwing the ball over 20 yards. 12/36 with 5 INT's. You cant lie and see both what you see with your eyes and those stats and tell me you don't have a problem there. It's not just the WR's or the scheme.

    You have to stop pretending that most of this did not fall on CP and his decline.
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  2. #22
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    I think it is 70/30 in favor of him returning net season. He will have to do it without Fitz who I think is moving on to retirement

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriS. View Post
    Pay attention. I've stated many times on here that David Johnson helped CP immensely down the stretch. Defense had to account for him.

    And you just had to watch the games to see CP was not hitting the long passes. Deep into the season he had the worst stats in the league throwing the ball over 20 yards. 12/36 with 5 INT's. You cant lie and see both what you see with your eyes and those stats and tell me you don't have a problem there. It's not just the WR's or the scheme.

    You have to stop pretending that most of this did not fall on CP and his decline.
    Your making two contentions here. One he is a choke artist and could throw in the second half of the year because the pressure was off. You also contend he sucked in the first half because he is in decline because of age? Which is it? Now you're saying David Johnson helped him immensely down the stretch.

    Of course David Johnson helped him down the stretch. We had one quality WR suited up for most of the season and he was essentially used for short throws. We had a TE down the stretch, again short throws and Johnson down the stretch again short throws. Adjustments were made because in fact early in the year we couldn't block and we didn't have a deep threat WR. Nelson dropped a few passes early in the season that were right in his hands that got him benched. Floyd was clearly done all year and both Browns were effectively done early because of injury. We didn't have a deep passing game at all because we didn't have the personal. You can't win the deep passing game with a crappy OL and no WR who can get down the field and catch the ball. It doesn't matter who's throwing it.

    My problem with Palmer wasn't that he was awful on the deep ball early, it's the fact that he is a veteran QB and didn't adjust to the personal and defense at all. That's crappy play for a veteran QB. He clearly didn't have any problem with his throws. What he had was a mental problem. He was forcing the plays and he and the team suffered for it.

    You can ignore the fact but the Cardinals last year suited up one quality WR from game one. That WR is terrific but he is generally used as a possession receiver and most of his catches are 15 yards in. The other factor which many ignore is our HC was sick and we made the adjustments for our lack of personal in the deep game after the bye.

    One of the things I hate about Palmer is for a veteran QB he did little to adjust early to what was obvious. BA may well have been distracted or stubborn or a little of both. It was pretty obvious the O the Cardinals wanted to run wasn't on the field and was overmatched in the deep passing game. Again it's a team game. Palmer in many ways was awful last year but most of it was his poor decision making which for a 37 year old QB is unforgivable.

    The fact that defenses had to account for Johnson didn't change the fact that besides Fitz and Johnson there was no one else to account for.

  4. #24
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    After a later start and slower working-in to his camp work CP should feel better prepared for the season opener. With back-to-back road games on turf look for BA to emphasize the 'speed game' in his playcalling and confidently face visiting Dallas on MNF.

    If we are able to get out of the gate that way I think CP will show the national audience the Cowboys defensive holes and mark us as a team to reckon with. Our veterans know what they let slip through their fingers last season. For us to be affected with key injuries and poor special teams' play again is being prepared for as best as possible and the team should be better in depth, in focus and in both veteran experience and youthful talent. I see us as winning the division and contending for a playoff Bye week.

  5. #25
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    no


    dude was halfway out the door this last off season, and now hes only going to practice once per week?


    Jeez, if he does play in 2018, we will literally just wheel him out on Sundays, then stick him in the refrigerator for the rest of the week till next sunday.

  6. #26
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    In seasons' long ago when teams played six exhibition games the QB's, regardless of age, would all develop 'dead arms' at some point before the first game. The QB's anticipated this because it was the time before offseason conditioning and the eventual starting QB had to be ready.

    CP is now dealing with something similar, only he and BA are adjusting his routine to avoid arm fatigue later in the season based on any concern due to his being a long-term starter. I remember when our recent 'Ring of Honor' recipient, Jim Hart, would start the season his rifle-arm was good to go and stayed effective thru the last game of the season. It's all about adjusting to the needs of the person and his position. If we are expecting a successful playoff run wouldn't you want CP looking as fresh coming out of the the playoff Bye-week as earlier in the season? Especially since he's 'all-in' for the SB this season I am OK with BA learning as much about the other QB's and more slowly get CP ready for the games that count.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Your making two contentions here. One he is a choke artist and could throw in the second half of the year because the pressure was off. You also contend he sucked in the first half because he is in decline because of age? Which is it? Now you're saying David Johnson helped him immensely down the stretch.

    .
    Pretty simple really. The year started with huge expectations. Cant deny that. In fact probably the biggest of his career. This was by all accounts a "super bowl team.".
    The pressure was there and he didn't handle it very well . And of course he showed decline at the age of 37. So it was multifactorial.

    Second half rolls around. They start using David Johnson more. He's perhaps the biggest weapon in the league at this point. The cards are in turmoil looking like they are going to miss the playoffs. The pressure of being a super bowl team is gone. CP can relax. The defense has to account for David Johnson. It opens things up for a declining veteran. His numbers go up.

    Your welcome.
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  8. #28
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    I'd bet this is it for Fitz and Palmer

    Good news is Cards will free up A TON of $.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriS. View Post
    Pretty simple really. The year started with huge expectations. Cant deny that. In fact probably the biggest of his career. This was by all accounts a "super bowl team.".
    The pressure was there and he didn't handle it very well . And of course he showed decline at the age of 37. So it was multifactorial.

    Second half rolls around. They start using David Johnson more. He's perhaps the biggest weapon in the league at this point. The cards are in turmoil looking like they are going to miss the playoffs. The pressure of being a super bowl team is gone. CP can relax. The defense has to account for David Johnson. It opens things up for a declining veteran. His numbers go up.

    Your welcome.
    Got any stats that show that Johnson was getting appreciably more touches in the second half of the season?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriS. View Post
    Pretty simple really. The year started with huge expectations. Cant deny that. In fact probably the biggest of his career. This was by all accounts a "super bowl team.".
    The pressure was there and he didn't handle it very well . And of course he showed decline at the age of 37. So it was multifactorial.

    Second half rolls around. They start using David Johnson more. He's perhaps the biggest weapon in the league at this point. The cards are in turmoil looking like they are going to miss the playoffs. The pressure of being a super bowl team is gone. CP can relax. The defense has to account for David Johnson. It opens things up for a declining veteran. His numbers go up.

    Your welcome.
    It amazes me how you continue to marry yourself to false narratives, even when stats completely refute your claim.

    Palmer's first 7 games: 2068yds (7.3ypa), 10TD, 6 INT
    Palmer's last 7 games
    (with pressure off, in your eyes): 1789yds (6.73ypa), 15TD, 6INT

    His numbers were, pretty much across the board, BETTER in the FIRST HALF of the season. He did, however, throw more TD in the 2nd half. Why? Well, one HUGE reason is likely:

    Sacks allowed in first 7 games: 24
    Sacks allowed in last 7 games: 15

    Carson Palmer had one of his three best seasons of his career in 2016. He was consistent pretty much throughout the season, with numbers slightly better over the first half of the year. Once the OL started actually giving him some time over the last two months, he threw more TD. We can argue why, it might just be a fluke, or perhaps more time to get through progressions allowed him to find guys open in the RZ/EZ.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 05-17-2017 at 02:21 PM.

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