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Thread: Kirk Cousins OR Matthew Stafford

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Heat View Post
    I think monsterstrike is right about where both land, but I'd love to see what Stafford could do in BAs offense and on a team with a great RB and defense to boot.

    I like Cousins a lot as well. This first round is a bit like Pam Anderson vs Kate Upton
    I hope you're talking about Pam Anderson of a few years ago.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Were talking about replacing Carson Palmer who has a cap hit of 24.125 million in 2017
    Yes, if Palmer retires Cards will have the $$$. And, as tough as it is to consider, even Fitz may be off the books with his salary.

    Cards should have the $$$ either way to consider a high-priced signing of either Cousins or Stafford.

  3. #13
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    Here's the puzzle regarding Stafford:

    Isn't the expectation that a #1 overall draft pick is going to be the guy who lifts a team on his back and gets them to the next level . . . at least to a winning record? That is the expectation on a QB.

    Stafford does not have a winning record at 51-58. When he has gotten into the playoffs, he is 0-3.

    One stat that shows up for Stafford is his ability for comeback wins. I think that is one big reason the perception of him as a QB is good in the eyes of lots of fans---we seldom get Detroit as a game to watch on regular TV but Stafford shows up on the highlights with game-winning drives. He has 28 game winning drives to his credit---in 2016 he had 8 4th quarter winning drives during the regular season.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=StafMa00

    Of course, the need for a game-winning drive means that the team was not in position to win and needed the final quarter miracle.

    Also, compare the stats on passing for both Cousins and Stafford. Cousins has a smaller sample size having played in only 49 games to Stafford's 109---but contrast the QBR, average gain per pass, completion %, net yard per pass.

    Curious how Stafford gets the nod.

  4. #14
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    Stafford and Cousins play on teams that would likely have to sacrifice valuable picks to move up in the '18 draft if they wanted to get a new QB. No real problem there, teams do that, but they would likely be looking at a year or more of their newly drafted QB getting acclimated to NFL football and the accompanying dropoff in production. Getting a new QB doesn't guarantee a Dak Prescott rookie season. In fact it doesn't guarantee anything at all. There is the possibility the newby could be a bust.

    A bird in the hand, yadda yadda yadda.

    The Chiefs will obviously do their best to offset the cost of moving up for Mahomes by liquidating Smith for picks and/or players, at some time. That's what Reid did with the Cards for Kolb. But Kolb wasn't even his starter.

    Stafford and Cousins have both proven to be viable starters in this league. They've both been to the playoffs. Are the Lions or Redskins really going to be looking to let either one of these players just go away to some other team with no proven answer to replace them? I doubt it. More likely, if they even decided to draft a new QB, they would follow the outline KC is using and let that new QB sit for a year behind the starter.

    Until 2019.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    I hope you're talking about Pam Anderson of a few years ago.
    Yes. Of course. Peak Baywatch. And Upton pre-Verlander.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    Here's the puzzle regarding Stafford:

    Isn't the expectation that a #1 overall draft pick is going to be the guy who lifts a team on his back and gets them to the next level . . . at least to a winning record? That is the expectation on a QB.

    Stafford does not have a winning record at 51-58. When he has gotten into the playoffs, he is 0-3.

    One stat that shows up for Stafford is his ability for comeback wins. I think that is one big reason the perception of him as a QB is good in the eyes of lots of fans---we seldom get Detroit as a game to watch on regular TV but Stafford shows up on the highlights with game-winning drives. He has 28 game winning drives to his credit---in 2016 he had 8 4th quarter winning drives during the regular season.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...layer=StafMa00

    Of course, the need for a game-winning drive means that the team was not in position to win and needed the final quarter miracle.

    Also, compare the stats on passing for both Cousins and Stafford. Cousins has a smaller sample size having played in only 49 games to Stafford's 109---but contrast the QBR, average gain per pass, completion %, net yard per pass.

    Curious how Stafford gets the nod.
    Under Jim Schwartz Stafford had a winning percentage of .40 while Schwartz has an NFL career winning percentage of .363. Stafford has a winning record since Caldwell was hired. If you look at Stafford and Cousins last couple of years statistically it's pretty much a toss up. It's very close. I think Stafford is a little better under pressure but certainly could see going the other way. My bet is Detroit is going to do more to hold on to Stafford than Washington will to hang onto Cousins. This is just based on the Snyder who is a terrible owner. I just don't see Stafford becoming available.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Under Jim Schwartz Stafford had a winning percentage of .40 while Schwartz has an NFL career winning percentage of .363. Stafford has a winning record since Caldwell was hired. If you look at Stafford and Cousins last couple of years statistically it's pretty much a toss up. It's very close. I think Stafford is a little better under pressure but certainly could see going the other way. My bet is Detroit is going to do more to hold on to Stafford than Washington will to hang onto Cousins. This is just based on the Snyder who is a terrible owner. I just don't see Stafford becoming available.
    Believe you are right in having Cousins becoming available over Stafford.

    As CardCore pointed out, if Wash and Lions have any sense, they will try and keep their QBs---there are only so many who can give reasonable play out there.

    That said (1) Never underestimate the dysfunction in some NFL front offices. See the blow up of the SF relationship with Harbaugh;

    (2) Don't underestimate the impatience of some owners to get a winner. If the Lions have a poor season I could see them getting rid of Stafford simply to make a change. Why continue spinning the wheels with a average QB who wants top money??

    (3) Splash counts with the fan base. Look at the Texans last year trying to make the big steal of Oss from Denver. KC fans are all over the Mahomes draft even as Smith had a 12-4 season last year with KC getting royally cheated on a holding call on Winston.

    (4) The regular fan does not know the in-house dynamics with the players and what has been said between mgmt. and player. See Sherman still holding a SB grudge and anger toward Wilson. Some of the bad blood between Cousins and Synder has leaked out and may be the reason he is not signed.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Under Jim Schwartz Stafford had a winning percentage of .40 while Schwartz has an NFL career winning percentage of .363. Stafford has a winning record since Caldwell was hired. If you look at Stafford and Cousins last couple of years statistically it's pretty much a toss up. It's very close. I think Stafford is a little better under pressure but certainly could see going the other way. My bet is Detroit is going to do more to hold on to Stafford than Washington will to hang onto Cousins. This is just based on the Snyder who is a terrible owner. I just don't see Stafford becoming available.
    Snyder and Ford are showing signs of re-signing their stud QBs. Bidwill needs another option besides Cousins and Stafford.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Under Jim Schwartz Stafford had a winning percentage of .40 while Schwartz has an NFL career winning percentage of .363. Stafford has a winning record since Caldwell was hired. If you look at Stafford and Cousins last couple of years statistically it's pretty much a toss up. It's very close. I think Stafford is a little better under pressure but certainly could see going the other way. My bet is Detroit is going to do more to hold on to Stafford than Washington will to hang onto Cousins. This is just based on the Snyder who is a terrible owner. I just don't see Stafford becoming available.
    I even shake my head when I think about Washington letting Cousins go.

    There they are in 2012 with pick #2 and snatch RGIII. Then make a very uncommon move. In the 4th round take ANOTHER QB. Beit hedging their bets, or just staying true to their board, a little of both, whatever, they ended up w/ Cousins. RGIII then eventually goes by the wayside. Now? The selection of Cousins in the 4th round actually makes them look like they knew what they were doing (Lol).

    To then piss that away with Colt McCoy and Nate Sudfeld sitting in the wings would make them look like total buffoons.

    That by no means should be interpreted as me saying they would never do it! Snyder is an imbecile, so it wouldn't really surprise me that much.

    Also I honestly have no clue what Sudfeld looks like. Maybe he brings more to the table than I give him credit for.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardCore View Post
    I even shake my head when I think about Washington letting Cousins go.

    There they are in 2012 with pick #2 and snatch RGIII. Then make a very uncommon move. In the 4th round take ANOTHER QB. Beit hedging their bets, or just staying true to their board, a little of both, whatever, they ended up w/ Cousins. RGIII then eventually goes by the wayside. Now? The selection of Cousins in the 4th round actually makes them look like they knew what they were doing (Lol).

    To then piss that away with Colt McCoy and Nate Sudfeld sitting in the wings would make them look like total buffoons.

    That by no means should be interpreted as me saying they would never do it! Snyder is an imbecile, so it wouldn't really surprise me that much.

    Also I honestly have no clue what Sudfeld looks like. Maybe he brings more to the table than I give him credit for.
    Takes two signatures to make a contract official. Cousins wants to be in San Fran and has done what it takes to get himself out of Washington. It is doubtful the Redskins would tag him again because the cost is a staggering 34-35 million dollars.

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