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Thread: BA on QBs

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    Possible reason that the Cards have not drafted or even stuck with a practice squad QB. When BA retires (or fired), SK will bring in the new coach and together they will go after the QB that matches the new playbook. That's is what happened when SK brought in BA.

    BA had Stanton tag along and together they dug up Palmer off the Raider scrap pile. At the time, the Raiders were also running a chuck-it-deep vertical passing game with Palmer.

    Best case scenario will be to bring in a new HC who pulls a QB who already knows that playbook. The OC for the Pats and Garrap?
    That's not correct about Oakland running a chuck it deep vertical passing game. CP's top target was his TE, second was Marcel Reese his fullback. His top receiver was denarius moore at 51 catches (and only 14.5 yds per catch) and heyward-bey had 41. Darren McFadden had 42 and he was hurt part of the year.

    If you are going to throw stuff out there, at least check your work. It's obvious you didn't watch a single raider game in 2012.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    I said what I wanted to say and always do so don't try and put words in my mouth. Meanwhile you can continue to try and downplay Kaps performance as though that (his performance) is the real issue all you want....but in doing so.......all you're showing is that facts don't matter as much as your own personal opinion which you continue to try and pass off as fact. That's the only "refusal". Furthermore, to accuse the experts of being dumb for decision making only makes you and your assessments look dumber, especially given someone with BA's QB track record and coach of the year awards. Finally when you say "I'll give you this", I would like to try and give you something in return but you haven't brought much with you for me to credit.
    Doesn't change the fact that that's 100% what you were saying.

    The only one here making a "dumb" assessment is you for acting like Kaepernick would fit here like a glove. Even when you have absolutely nothing that backs that up.

    We don't run the read option.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert ethan View Post
    I think they wanted a deep game, but the burners they drafted, (like Heyward-Bay) were completely unreliable. It's not so different from the Cards last year, with Fitzgerald averaging less than 10 ypc, and the RB being second leading reciever. DJ caught more balls than Brown and Nelson combined.
    Yes. Hugh Jackson was very familiar with Carson Palmer (recruited him in college and was coordinator with him in Cincy) and got him to Oakland to continue the vertical passing game via Palmer's big arm. Up to that Oakland trade, Palmer had his best year with Jackson as OC in Cincy. Hugh Jackson traded for Palmer for the very same reason BASK jumped on him when Oakland went through yet another firing cycle and got rid of Jackson.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...innati-bengals

    Hugh Jackson believes in the vertical passing game---see his success developing Andy Dalton when Jackson was OC with Cincy. And, as RE points out, sometimes you don't get what you want when other players don't perform. But Hugh Jackson + Carson Palmer = vertical passing game.
    Last edited by Canyonram; 06-10-2017 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Added link to Palmer to Oakland trade

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    Chip Kelly.

    A whole lot of college coaches in line for a coaching job in the pros.

    The guys you mentioned are all 'old school' dinosaurs. BenRoth is a hit away from retiring, P.Manning is history, Luck was a QB tutored by BA and has yet to rise above his poor surrounding team.

    The rule changes that have gone toward protecting the offensive players now puts a premium on QBs who are mobile scramblers. DBs can't breath heavily on a WR or else it is pass interference.

    Game in the college ranks is evolving away from the traditional old school offense and dinosaur QBs. The old school NFL coaches are on the way out as well as the old school QBs.
    I disagree.

    Football is still the same game. Pendulums tend to swing and gimmicks die a fast hard death.

    Those "old school QBs" that are on their way out just represented both sides in the SB. Matt Ryan is not getting worse, he's looking like an MVP. If it's so bad for dinosaur QBs why is Brady dominating at 40?

    Cardcore is right. Those mobile QBs have a short shelf life if they take too many hits. The very reason Wilson is still a stud is because he is the smartest guy on the field, which he proves every time he slides. Mariotta had better pay attention. The smartest thing Wentz did was become a pocket passer. He looks to have made the transition well.

    How many teams start a scrambler nowadays? 25%? Look through the list and tell me how many of these guys there really are.

    http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB
    13RFoster 36CGodwin 98RDouglas 115DJohnson 157CBrantley 179XWoods 208CKelly

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    Quote Originally Posted by robert ethan View Post
    Chip Kelly made the change after the playoffs were out of the picture for the 9ers. They were 1-4 under Gabbert and went 1-10 under the social justice warrior, which is more or less what he wanted. He was in the first year of a 5 year deal, and he thought he was bullet proof after the 9ers fired coaches in back to back seasons previously. He came from Philly with a reputation of being something of a racist. Sooooo.... the option was obvious. Go with the "black" QB (actually the only connection Kap had with being "black" in his life was a drive by deposit from some anonymous stranger. He was raised as whitebread suburban as Gabbert or anyone reading this board.) get rid of the the racist monkey on his back, lose a bunch of games and maybe draft a QB he could call his own with a top pick. The other aspect was that he was in a power struggle with Baalke who hated Kaepernick all the years he was there and wanted to go with Gabbert and dump Kap. The only thing Kelly had full control over was who dressed for the games, and obviously who started. He used that to try to leverage Baalke out and get his close friend Tom Gamble as G.M. Jed York just got sick of it all and fired everyone. But it'll be years before the 9ers recover from the mess.

    Never heard such a cherry picking manure argument. These guys have played at two different levels in this league for whatever reason and to try and narrow down a comparison to two season and argue Blaine was better for the team having won the starting job only to lose it to the guy he replaced, whom you're trying to argue wasn't as good for the team.......just doesn't make a credible argument.

    Meanwhile on a personal note.......my two year apprenticeship with The Association of Black Psychologists and subsequent community service in the north St. Louis inner city makes me more qualified on the subject of racism than you if what you say here is the extent of your knowledge on the subject.

    Here are TOTAL stat performances of the two for everyone to see. Still hoping for the best in Gabbert nevertheless, I just don't have to ignore facts or make accusations to do so.

    http://www.nfl.com/player/blainegabb...41/careerstats
    http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats...lin-kaepernick

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raze View Post
    I disagree.

    Football is still the same game. Pendulums tend to swing and gimmicks die a fast hard death.

    Those "old school QBs" that are on their way out just represented both sides in the SB. Matt Ryan is not getting worse, he's looking like an MVP. If it's so bad for dinosaur QBs why is Brady dominating at 40?

    Cardcore is right. Those mobile QBs have a short shelf life if they take too many hits. The very reason Wilson is still a stud is because he is the smartest guy on the field, which he proves every time he slides. Mariotta had better pay attention. The smartest thing Wentz did was become a pocket passer. He looks to have made the transition well.

    How many teams start a scrambler nowadays? 25%? Look through the list and tell me how many of these guys there really are.

    http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB



    The pro game has changed dramatically with more changes on the way. The D has been minimized so the O can score often because that is what fans want to see from their team---points on the board.

    Players and coaches arrive in the Pro ranks from college. That is where the old school QBs and coaches are being phased out.

    It is also probably the biggest reason the Cards haven't drafted a QB (except for Logan Thomas) during BASK tenure together. BA doesn't have the time to train a college guy to the way he wants a QB to behave. They (meaning old school QBs and old school coaches) are not being developed by the major college programs leaving old school coaches like BA with no one to draft.

    NFL coaches are currently a select few and most are old---they get shuffled around from team-to-team. Coordinators get promoted, HC go from one NFL job to another. As the current crop of old school guys fade away---where are their replacements with the same old school playbooks going to come from??

    I agree there is a short shelf life for the mobile QBs---the injury risk is high for a QB to take off and run---but the NFL is doing everything possible to minimize the injury risk with all the rule changes against the D players. And even if a mobile QB goes down---just find yourself another one because that is all that is going to be coming out of college programs.

    You asked 'how may teams start a scrambling QB and you answered your own question with 25%.' I don't know if that number is a good estimate or not. Now guess how many scrambling QBs were starting in the football era of dinosaurs and old school coaches. Close to zero with the most recognized Fran Tarkenton. You'd get the rare guy who was more runner than QB---Bobby Douglas with the Bears. Steve Young was not fast but he would break contain and get some yards as would Brett Favre.

    So, from close to zero to your own 25% estimate is a pretty good indicator where the league is headed. That is the direction the game is going because the QB talent arriving from college is being taught that way.

    Name the QBs selected in this year's draft that are 'old school' pocket passers.
    Last edited by Canyonram; 06-11-2017 at 12:24 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardCore View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that that's 100% what you were saying.

    The only one here making a "dumb" assessment is you for acting like Kaepernick would fit here like a glove. Even when you have absolutely nothing that backs that up.

    We don't run the read option.
    I know you like to think you're arguing a fact. And you also are either trying to misrepresent what I've been arguing about Kap or you're not able to comprehend it. I never asserted, suggested, or tried to argue he would fit like a glove as to why I think he might be worth the Cards pursuing. My argument has been and continues to be that I think the Cards should go after him given that 1) he's statistically the best QB on the market 2) he's had SB experience and is still young, and 3) he's shown he's capable of playing well even in a losing situation. His career stats are what I'm backing up my argument with while you asserting I'm offering nothing to back up my point. You're either ignoring that or can't comprehend it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    [/I]


    The pro game has changed dramatically with more changes on the way. The D has been minimized so the O can score often because that is what fans want to see from their team---points on the board.

    Players and coaches arrive in the Pro ranks from college. That is where the old school QBs and coaches are being phased out.

    It is also probably the biggest reason the Cards haven't drafted a QB (except for Logan Thomas) during BASK tenure together. BA doesn't have the time to train a college guy to the way he wants a QB to behave. They (meaning old school QBs and old school coaches) are not being developed by the major college programs leaving old school coaches like BA with no one to draft.

    NFL coaches are currently a select few and most are old---they get shuffled around from team-to-team. Coordinators get promoted, HC go from one NFL job to another. As the current crop of old school guys fade away---where are their replacements with the same old school playbooks going to come from??

    I agree there is a short shelf life for the mobile QBs---the injury risk is high for a QB to take off and run---but the NFL is doing everything possible to minimize the injury risk with all the rule changes against the D players. And even if a mobile QB goes down---just find yourself another one because that is all that is going to be coming out of college programs.

    You asked 'how may teams start a scrambling QB and you answered your own question with 25%.' I don't know if that number is a good estimate or not. Now guess how many scrambling QBs were starting in the football era of dinosaurs and old school coaches. Close to zero with the most recognized Fran Tarkenton. You'd get the rare guy who was more runner than QB---Bobby Douglas with the Bears. Steve Young was not fast but he would break contain and get some yards as would Brett Favre.

    So, from close to zero to your own 25% estimate is a pretty good indicator where the league is headed. That is the direction the game is going because the QB talent arriving from college is being taught that way.

    Name the QBs selected in this year's draft that are 'old school' pocket passers.
    Really sorry that you misinterpret what's going on, but you definitely do CR.

    You need to look closer at the "old school" QB's that came out as runners and eventually either learned to play pro football or went by the wayside. Not just guys like Mike Vick, but even less renowned guys that loved to run and eventually got over it.
    Have you never heard the HC admonishing his QB to STOP doing that and throw the ball like he asked? Or being upset because his QB actually got hurt? With a season on the line look what happened to RGIII. I'm a firm believer that when a D stops respecting the fact that a QB won't run, then it's time to rip off 20 yards or whatever and MAKE them honest. Other than that I'd rather see that VERY high priced player taking good care of himself.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    I know you like to think you're arguing a fact. And you also are either trying to misrepresent what I've been arguing about Kap or you're not able to comprehend it. I never asserted, suggested, or tried to argue he would fit like a glove as to why I think he might be worth the Cards pursuing. My argument has been and continues to be that I think the Cards should go after him given that 1) he's statistically the best QB on the market 2) he's had SB experience and is still young, and 3) he's shown he's capable of playing well even in a losing situation. His career stats are what I'm backing up my argument with while you asserting I'm offering nothing to back up my point. You're either ignoring that or can't comprehend it.


    Yeah, keep telling yourself whatever it is you need to feel good pal.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canyonram View Post
    [/I]


    The pro game has changed dramatically with more changes on the way. The D has been minimized so the O can score often because that is what fans want to see from their team---points on the board.

    Players and coaches arrive in the Pro ranks from college. That is where the old school QBs and coaches are being phased out.

    It is also probably the biggest reason the Cards haven't drafted a QB (except for Logan Thomas) during BASK tenure together. BA doesn't have the time to train a college guy to the way he wants a QB to behave. They (meaning old school QBs and old school coaches) are not being developed by the major college programs leaving old school coaches like BA with no one to draft.

    NFL coaches are currently a select few and most are old---they get shuffled around from team-to-team. Coordinators get promoted, HC go from one NFL job to another. As the current crop of old school guys fade away---where are their replacements with the same old school playbooks going to come from??

    I agree there is a short shelf life for the mobile QBs---the injury risk is high for a QB to take off and run---but the NFL is doing everything possible to minimize the injury risk with all the rule changes against the D players. And even if a mobile QB goes down---just find yourself another one because that is all that is going to be coming out of college programs.

    You asked 'how may teams start a scrambling QB and you answered your own question with 25%.' I don't know if that number is a good estimate or not. Now guess how many scrambling QBs were starting in the football era of dinosaurs and old school coaches. Close to zero with the most recognized Fran Tarkenton. You'd get the rare guy who was more runner than QB---Bobby Douglas with the Bears. Steve Young was not fast but he would break contain and get some yards as would Brett Favre.

    So, from close to zero to your own 25% estimate is a pretty good indicator where the league is headed. That is the direction the game is going because the QB talent arriving from college is being taught that way.

    Name the QBs selected in this year's draft that are 'old school' pocket passers.
    You mean name the QBs in this years weak QB draft that were pocket passers?

    Let's wait until next year when Sam Darnold goes top 5 and revisit your theory about dinasours and pocket passers.

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