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Thread: The ongoing saga of Colin Kaepernick

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    So very true. But meanwhile what we do know is why he's the most debated free agent QB in the league given his record as a player. I too will leave it at that.
    His shortcomings as a qb were documented and his inability to learn the playbook was highlighted in sf. It's funny to me that people like Richard Sherman who said kaep sucks and all that jazz all of a sudden thinks kaep is a lock to play in the league.

    I don't care for his play. If Baltimore signed him I'll support him. I think our back up sucks. I think kaep sucks I think kaep is better than our back up but they have two distinctly different styles
    Baltimore wins with offense

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiz View Post
    His shortcomings as a qb were documented and his inability to learn the playbook was highlighted in sf. It's funny to me that people like Richard Sherman who said kaep sucks and all that jazz all of a sudden thinks kaep is a lock to play in the league.

    I don't care for his play. If Baltimore signed him I'll support him. I think our back up sucks. I think kaep sucks I think kaep is better than our back up but they have two distinctly different styles


    What does his record say......and how does his stats compare to the other free agent QB's (and the one brought out of retirement) who have been offered jobs?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    What does his record say......and how does his stats compare to the other free agent QB's (and the one brought out of retirement) who have been offered jobs?
    ESPN conducted an analysis on the air and answered the stats comparison questions for CK v. JC. In 4 of 5 common QB categories, the stats were a near tie. Neither QB shined in the huddle leadership category.

    Not sure that ESPN's analysis answers another underlying question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTMEIN View Post
    ESPN conducted an analysis on the air and answered the stats comparison questions for CK v. JC. In 4 of 5 common QB categories, the stats were a near tie. Neither QB shined in the huddle leadership category.

    Not sure that ESPN's analysis answers another underlying question.

    You can do a detailed comparative analysis of any two QB's in terms of their strength and weaknesses and the results will vary. My question had to do with how do they rank performance wise once you've added everything up (all categories). In that final analysis CK checks out at 88.9 and JC checked out at 78.1 and retirement. Last season alone Ck posted a final RTG of 90.7 even after having been benched. That's even higher than Carson. CK may not be right for the Cardinals......but for nobody?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    You can do a detailed comparative analysis of any two QB's in terms of their strength and weaknesses and the results will vary. My question had to do with how do they rank performance wise once you've added everything up (all categories). In that final analysis CK checks out at 88.9 and JC checked out at 78.1 and retirement. Last season alone Ck posted a final RTG of 90.7 even after having been benched. That's even higher than Carson. CK may not be right for the Cardinals......but for nobody?
    Have you ever worked with people who are very talented but are generally a drag on the workplace? A diva-type personality? I've worked with many, and it's not always just about the talent. I'd imagine NFL coaches have enough on their plates during a season, even though it isn't that difficult, and having a guy with an agenda can be a problem. Now that problem can be overcome by talent, but not always. I doubt Kaepernick is one who can provide a benefit (his play) above the cost (his SJW'ing).

    Of course ESJWPN and other media hacks want to make this about race, but it's not. Carson Palmer takes a knee during the anthem and he's a pariah, just like Kaepernick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Have you ever worked with people who are very talented but are generally a drag on the workplace? A diva-type personality? I've worked with many, and it's not always just about the talent. I'd imagine NFL coaches have enough on their plates during a season, even though it isn't that difficult, and having a guy with an agenda can be a problem. Now that problem can be overcome by talent, but not always. I doubt Kaepernick is one who can provide a benefit (his play) above the cost (his SJW'ing).

    Of course ESJWPN and other media hacks want to make this about race, but it's not. Carson Palmer takes a knee during the anthem and he's a pariah, just like Kaepernick.

    Well.......this is all speculation based on opinion and I understand that. And in answer to your opening question, yes many times and you are correct in observing talent can overcome such problems, especially if it involves winning which is what football is ultimately all about. But according to the argument you are trying to raise I would question why then was Geno Smith offered a job over CK. Meanwhile not only has CK gotten support in the locker room, even Steve Young has come out supporting him arguing that he wouldn't be a distraction in the locker room.

    After all is said and done, a QB's credibility as a player is based on his record (at least up until now). Unless I'm missing something CK ranked higher than every FAQB taken, including one we selected who beat CK out of a starting job only to lose it back to him. But meanwhile, on the other hand, even given my objective argument in his favor I would have to concede that the 49ers decided they don't want him either and there's something to be said for that either way as well.
    Last edited by Redhammer; 08-16-2017 at 08:01 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    You can do a detailed comparative analysis of any two QB's in terms of their strength and weaknesses and the results will vary. My question had to do with how do they rank performance wise once you've added everything up (all categories). In that final analysis CK checks out at 88.9 and JC checked out at 78.1 and retirement. Last season alone Ck posted a final RTG of 90.7 even after having been benched. That's even higher than Carson. CK may not be right for the Cardinals......but for nobody?
    I appreciate the clarification, Redhammer. I'm good with your math. And I understand the series of questions and the direction they point for possible answers.

    I thought ESPN's analysis was fair--no one suggest otherwise--but I wanted to get that up front. Neither QB, CK or JC, is likely to sign a multi-year contract for a good team under normal circumstances now, that was clear from the 1-year Miami offer sheet after several months of media debate on the CK matter. The ESPN bottom line that night did suggest a subjective component to their QB performance analysis, not further identified, aside from the 5 statistical categories. We all know owner and GM behaviors. They talk to each other. From that talk, shaped bias can be manifested or at least inferred. Lastly, there also was no clean, neatly added up analytic values, like the 78.1 and 90.7 you cite, from ESPN. ESPN was being careful that night, I'm sure.

    We all know about statistics, bias, and subjectivity. The intentional bias, when revealed, is what gets people real excited and shouting 'foul.' And they would be right to cry foul if it's real for CK. If CK has evidence of an NFL 'foul' he and the agent have not revealed the data.

    The drama continues for awhile longer, maybe until the next QB-desperate team pops up.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhammer View Post
    What does his record say......and how does his stats compare to the other free agent QB's (and the one brought out of retirement) who have been offered jobs?
    His stats suggest that a 3500 yard passing season is out of the question.
    Baltimore won a sb with a qb that we tried to minimize before and while our defense should be that good
    I'm not going to want to have to rely on hoping our qb can just minimize his mistakes
    Baltimore wins with offense

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Have you ever worked with people who are very talented but are generally a drag on the workplace? A diva-type personality? I've worked with many, and it's not always just about the talent. I'd imagine NFL coaches have enough on their plates during a season, even though it isn't that difficult, and having a guy with an agenda can be a problem. Now that problem can be overcome by talent, but not always. I doubt Kaepernick is one who can provide a benefit (his play) above the cost (his SJW'ing).

    Of course ESJWPN and other media hacks want to make this about race, but it's not. Carson Palmer takes a knee during the anthem and he's a pariah, just like Kaepernick.
    Your post suggested you were describing cutler
    Baltimore wins with offense

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTMEIN View Post
    I appreciate the clarification, Redhammer. I'm good with your math. And I understand the series of questions and the direction they point for possible answers.

    I thought ESPN's analysis was fair--no one suggest otherwise--but I wanted to get that up front. Neither QB, CK or JC, is likely to sign a multi-year contract for a good team under normal circumstances now, that was clear from the 1-year Miami offer sheet after several months of media debate on the CK matter. The ESPN bottom line that night did suggest a subjective component to their QB performance analysis, not further identified, aside from the 5 statistical categories. We all know owner and GM behaviors. They talk to each other. From that talk, shaped bias can be manifested or at least inferred. Lastly, there also was no clean, neatly added up analytic values, like the 78.1 and 90.7 you cite, from ESPN. ESPN was being careful that night, I'm sure.

    We all know about statistics, bias, and subjectivity. The intentional bias, when revealed, is what gets people real excited and shouting 'foul.' And they would be right to cry foul if it's real for CK. If CK has evidence of an NFL 'foul' he and the agent have not revealed the data.

    The drama continues for awhile longer, maybe until the next QB-desperate team pops up.
    I suspect he will get a one year prove it type deal and will be on a very short leash.......and this is if a team find themselves in need of a QB.

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