Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 52

Thread: Arizona the most turned over roster this year.

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    This is concerning and why I put zero stock in where our O and D finished last season (Top 10). We are not the same team.

    Granted, we could be better but we can also be worse.
    You can say that about every team. It's always conjecture. Last year the narrative was that Arizona lost ZERO snaps from anyone who touches the ball on an offense that finished #1 in the NFL. And then a cascade of OL injuries, a drunk WR, sickle cell, and a dumpster fire ST consistently putting the team in impossible situations happened.

    All you do is go by what the core has accomplished, and the foundation that has been lain by the organization.

    Why do NE and Seattle get so much benefit of the doubt? Could they not also "be better but... also be worse?"

    No reason to expect anything other than a rebound UNLESS you are of the belief that the ST mess was not adequately fixed. That is a fair concern.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    You can say that about every team. It's always conjecture. Last year the narrative was that Arizona lost ZERO snaps from anyone who touches the ball on an offense that finished #1 in the NFL. And then a cascade of OL injuries, a drunk WR, sickle cell, and a dumpster fire ST consistently putting the team in impossible situations happened.

    All you do is go by what the core has accomplished, and the foundation that has been lain by the organization.

    Why do NE and Seattle get so much benefit of the doubt? Could they not also "be better but... also be worse?"

    No reason to expect anything other than a rebound UNLESS you are of the belief that the ST mess was not adequately fixed. That is a fair concern.


    Pats will be good again.
    KC will probably be good again.
    Seattle will be fine.
    Steelers likely will be fine.
    Falcons will be fine.
    Packers will be fine.

    I would pretty much put my stock in those teams year in and out with their current setup. With the exception of KC they all have one thing in common which we don't.
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    Pats will be good again.
    KC will probably be good again.
    Seattle will be fine.
    Steelers likely will be fine.
    Falcons will be fine.
    Packers will be fine.

    I would pretty much put my stock in those teams year in and out with their current setup. With the exception of KC they all have one thing in common which we don't.
    I know where you are going with this. And again I would ask, how can you say with confidence that Carson Palmer won't be a legitimate franchise QB in 2017? There is no reason to believe he won't be, unless you have been hypnotized by the likes of Ari S.

    Plus, the Falcons with Matt Ryan stunk for a few years prior to 2016.

    Carson Palmer in 2016 put up pretty much the identical season that Kurt Warner did in 2009.

    Palmer was not as good as his career year of 2015 (duh.) Neither was Cam Newton. Or Phil Rivers. Funny thing about "career years." They aren't replicated.

    Russ Wilson went from 34/8 TD/INT in '15 to 21/11. Guess he's in "obvious decline" as well?

    The Cardinals core is solid. Palmer is the best QB Arizona has had since Warner, and possibly the second-best ever (Hart/Lomax?) The WR should not be a trainwreck of fluke diseases and drunkenness again. The OL is in place and (hopefully) will avoid the crazy injury bugs of 2016.

    Here are the ONLY questions:

    1) Is the ST disaster fixed? We all saw how an epic failure on just that unit alone can turn 11 or 12 wins into 7.

    2) Can the DL adequately replace CC by committee (Mauro/Nkemdiche/Gunter)?

    3) CB2. Is Bethel healthy? Even if he is, can he be good enough to not lose games with other QB targeting him and avoiding PP21?

    4) RG.

    And that's it. I'm comfortable saying 25+ other NFL teams would trade their "issues" for Arizona's in 2017.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 07-18-2017 at 04:46 PM.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    I know where you are going with this. And again I would ask, how can you say with confidence that Carson Palmer won't be a legitimate franchise QB in 2017? There is no reason to believe he won't be, unless you have been hypnotized by the likes of Ari S.

    Plus, the Falcons with Matt Ryan stunk for a few years prior to 2016.

    Carson Palmer in 2016 put up pretty much the identical season that Kurt Warner did in 2009.

    Palmer was not as good as his career year of 2015 (duh.) Neither was Cam Newton. Or Phil Rivers. Funny thing about "career years." They aren't replicated.

    Russ Wilson went from 34/8 TD/INT in '15 to 21/11. Guess he's in "obvious decline" as well?

    The Cardinals core is solid. Palmer is the best QB Arizona has had since Warner, and possibly the second-best ever (Hart/Lomax?) The WR should not be a trainwreck of fluke diseases and drunkenness again. The OL is in place and (hopefully) will avoid the crazy injury bugs of 2016.

    Here are the ONLY questions:

    1) Is the ST disaster fixed? We all saw how an epic failure on just that unit alone can turn 11 or 12 wins into 7.

    2) Can the DL adequately replace CC by committee (Mauro/Nkemdiche/Gunter)?

    3) CB2. Is Bethel healthy? Even if he is, can he be good enough to not lose games with other QB targeting him and avoiding PP21?

    4) RG.

    And that's it. I'm comfortable saying 25+ other NFL teams would trade their "issues" for Arizona's in 2017.
    1) No, special teams wasn't just kicking. It was a lack of depth on the current roster brought about by missing on draft picks over a period of several years. We will still have to start rookies in situaitons we shouldn't have to.

    2) No, no, and no. CC was not only a great player but a leader on this team. Think back to when we let Larry Centers, and Lomas Brown go.

    3) Who knows. I am very concerned about our D though. More than O for sure. PP21 is now the defacto leader in the locker room. Mr. Helicopter. Ugh.............

    4) RG will be good as long as DJ is healthy.

    I am seeing a 7 win team at best and I didn't say that last year. I thought we would win 10 games and be back in the playoffs.
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    1) No, special teams wasn't just kicking. It was a lack of depth on the current roster brought about by missing on draft picks over a period of several years. We will still have to start rookies in situaitons we shouldn't have to.

    2) No, no, and no. CC was not only a great player but a leader on this team. Think back to when we let Larry Centers, and Lomas Brown go.

    3) Who knows. I am very concerned about our D though. More than O for sure. PP21 is now the defacto leader in the locker room. Mr. Helicopter. Ugh.............

    4) RG will be good as long as DJ is healthy.

    I am seeing a 7 win team at best and I didn't say that last year. I thought we would win 10 games and be back in the playoffs.
    1) ST depth was affected more by injuries to Bethel, JaBrown, Fua, Gabe Martin, and Momah than it was by any perceived "draft misses." Keim has killed the draft since 2013. Killed it. This is still one of the deepest rosters in the NFL.

    2) There was definitely a leadership/locker room issue last year. Which is why guys like Dansby and Bethea were signed. CC was never a very vocal leader. His play on the field was his leading by example. The fact that Keim threw zero resources at replacing CC shows me that he has more than enough confidence in the DL depth to rotate in and do what is expected of a DE in Bettcher's 3-4. But yes, this is a legit question.

    3) You can count on one hand the teams that have a true star at CB2. With a stud like PP21 shutting down the other team's WR1, all you really need is someone to NOT LOSE you games. Sure, it would be nice to have 2010 Darrelle Revis over there, but that ain't happening. A healthy and improved Bethel SHOULD be enough. We will see.

    4) DJohnson and Boehm are both entirely unknown.

    This team only wins 7 IF they once again sustain a litany of unlucky injuries AND the ST dumpster fire hasn't been fixed.

    I can't see them getting that unlucky again, and I refuse to believe that behind closed doors Keim and Arians haven't been honest about how much of a failure that ST unit was last year.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    1) ST depth was affected more by injuries to Bethel, JaBrown, Fua, Gabe Martin, and Momah than it was by any perceived "draft misses." Keim has killed the draft since 2013. Killed it. This is still one of the deepest rosters in the NFL.

    2) There was definitely a leadership/locker room issue last year. Which is why guys like Dansby and Bethea were signed. CC was never a very vocal leader. His play on the field was his leading by example. The fact that Keim threw zero resources at replacing CC shows me that he has more than enough confidence in the DL depth to rotate in and do what is expected of a DE in Bettcher's 3-4. But yes, this is a legit question.

    3) You can count on one hand the teams that have a true star at CB2. With a stud like PP21 shutting down the other team's WR1, all you really need is someone to NOT LOSE you games. Sure, it would be nice to have 2010 Darrelle Revis over there, but that ain't happening. A healthy and improved Bethel SHOULD be enough. We will see.

    4) DJohnson and Boehm are both entirely unknown.

    This team only wins 7 IF they once again sustain a litany of unlucky injuries AND the ST dumpster fire hasn't been fixed.

    I can't see them getting that unlucky again, and I refuse to believe that behind closed doors Keim and Arians haven't been honest about how much of a failure that ST unit was last year.
    Why do people always associate good leadership with loud mouths?
    Job well done will always be better than well said.

    Your rosy optimism is great but I am not seeing it in the slightest and neither does Vegas by the way.
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,757

    Default

    [QUOTE=WVcardsFan;1172900]I know where you are going with this. And again I would ask, how can you say with confidence that Carson Palmer won't be a legitimate franchise QB in 2017? There is no reason to believe he won't be, unless you have been hypnotized by the likes of Ari S.

    Plus, the Falcons with Matt Ryan stunk for a few years prior to 2016.

    Carson Palmer in 2016 put up pretty much the identical season that Kurt Warner did in 2009.

    Palmer was not as good as his career year of 2015 (duh.) Neither was Cam Newton. Or Phil Rivers. Funny thing about "career years." They aren't replicated.

    Russ Wilson went from 34/8 TD/INT in '15 to 21/11. Guess he's in "obvious decline" as well?

    The Cardinals core is solid. Palmer is the best QB Arizona has had since Warner, and possibly the second-best ever (Hart/Lomax?) The WR should not be a trainwreck of fluke diseases and drunkenness again. The OL is in place and (hopefully) will avoid the crazy injury bugs of 2016.

    Here are the ONLY questions:

    1) Is the ST disaster fixed? We all saw how an epic failure on just that unit alone can turn 11 or 12 wins into 7.

    2) Can the DL adequately replace CC by committee (Mauro/Nkemdiche/Gunter)?

    3) CB2. Is Bethel healthy? Even if he is, can he be good enough to not lose games with other QB targeting him and avoiding PP21?

    4) RG.

    So much truth to this post. The reality is that the Cards have a good pass rush and Seattle a shaky offensive line while the Cards O-line and whole team got better because of the last draft and really the last 3. Big Ben is almost as old as Palmer so if you put him on a pedestal, you have to put Palmer there as well since both teams have very good offenses and the 2 best rbs. The reason I say that, is special teams killed the Cards last season. The Buffalo and Carolina games were prime examples of 2 road games that the defenses gave our offense every opportunity to win the game but teams killed us. That's not including the other obvious games with ST mistakes that hurt the offense's momentum. GB got real thin depth wise and they might get tested again in that area. Falcons have a new OC. NE is trying to build a dream team and those teams rarely win it all. Really no team is immune to falling below expectations and many teams can surprise when they gel, everything comes together at the right time and they are healthy.
    GA Bulldogs Cards Fan

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    Why do people always associate good leadership with loud mouths?
    Job well done will always be better than well said.
    Agreed. Perhaps I was too vague in my post. CC certainly WAS a leader. By example. But regardless, there was a scarcity of VOCAL leadership and accountability in the locker room, which is why guys like Dansby and Bethea were brought in.

    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    Your rosy optimism is great but I am not seeing it in the slightest and neither does Vegas by the way.
    Not rosy optimism. That would entail ignoring the ST fiasco and brushing off the loss of CC and uncertainty at CB2. I clearly stated that those are all legitimate concerns. That being said, EVERY team has concerns, and most have far more than Arizona. Vegas only cares about having a pulse on public perception. If you are saying that the public is vastly underestimating Arizona I would agree completely. Vegas is smart enough to realize this and they set the O/U futures line at a spot to generate equal money on each side.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 07-18-2017 at 08:35 PM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post


    Not rosy optimism. That would entail ignoring the ST fiasco and brushing off the loss of CC and uncertainty at CB2. I clearly stated that those are all legitimate concerns. That being said, EVERY team has concerns, and most have far more than Arizona. Vegas only cares about having a pulse on public perception. If you are saying that the public is vastly underestimating Arizona I would agree completely. Vegas is smart enough to realize this and they set the O/U futures line at a spot to generate equal money on each side.
    So what are you seeing as far as win totally this season?
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7,796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    So what are you seeing as far as win totally this season?
    I see this team much like the 2014-2016 versions. All of which were 10-11 win teams. The '15 team got lucky in many close game scenarios, avoided significant injuries until late December, and outperformed their win expectancy. The 2016 team was also a 10-11 win team that actually would have won 12 if not for the ST disaster. There is no doubt though that the 2015 team was better, simply because of CP's career year, but not by as much as people would have you believe. I'd say the 2015 team was an 11-5 team that ended up 13-3, while the 2016 team was a 10-6 team that ended up 7-8-1 (thanks again to Amos Jones and company.)

    I'd say 10-6 or 11-5 are both fair in 2017, depending on whether the team can stay away from getting unlucky and catch a few breaks here and there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •