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Thread: Training Camp reports have mitigated 3 Biggest Concerns -- but a NEW ONE has shown up

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClutchDJ View Post
    No, Jefferson was great at defending TEs. He wasn't good at covering slot WRs. He was also decent at covering RBs.

    He held all these dudes in check since 2015: Bennett, Graham, Olsen(TWICE. He was probably the lone bright spot on defense in that NFC Ship game, & even though Eifert got one him, it was a fantastic throw by Dalton. You mentioned scheme, but you also need the right players to fit that scheme & Tony had fit that scheme to a T.

    He made his hay in run support, but he was also pretty d**n good at covering TEs & stopped the dominance of TEs used to leave on us.

    I don't know why, but I remember Jimmy scoring more than once that game. I know he did after Tony left for injury. Ah well.
    From PFF's 2017 FA primer:

    "Jefferson has graded positively against the run in all four seasons of his career, with his run-defense grade increasing steadily over his first three seasons before taking a tremendous jump in 2016, his 98.0 run-defense grade placed second among safeties. Jefferson’s position on this list isn’t derived just from his outstanding play against the run though, over the past two seasons Jefferson has transformed from a run-stopping safety who was a liability in coverage, to an elite run-stopping safety who’s also competent in coverage. In his first two seasons, Jefferson allowed a 111.1 QB Rating when he was the primary defender; since then his QB Rating against has been just 87.1."

    If you want to praise "competent," be my guest. He's a run-stopper. Bethea can fill that role. Bethea sucks in coverage, but Baker does not, and that's who will be in during Nickel snaps.

    Loss of Jefferson is not a huge deal. He's certainly not worth what Ravens gave him.

    The three biggest questions continue to be, in order: Special Teams, replacing CC's production, and CB2. Everything else pales in comparison.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    From PFF's 2017 FA primer:

    "Jefferson has graded positively against the run in all four seasons of his career, with his run-defense grade increasing steadily over his first three seasons before taking a tremendous jump in 2016, his 98.0 run-defense grade placed second among safeties. Jefferson’s position on this list isn’t derived just from his outstanding play against the run though, over the past two seasons Jefferson has transformed from a run-stopping safety who was a liability in coverage, to an elite run-stopping safety who’s also competent in coverage. In his first two seasons, Jefferson allowed a 111.1 QB Rating when he was the primary defender; since then his QB Rating against has been just 87.1."

    If you want to praise "competent," be my guest. He's a run-stopper. Bethea can fill that role. Bethea sucks in coverage, but Baker does not, and that's who will be in during Nickel snaps.

    Loss of Jefferson is not a huge deal. He's certainly not worth what Ravens gave him.

    The three biggest questions continue to be, in order: Special Teams, replacing CC's production, and CB2. Everything else pales in comparison.
    It also doesn't detail whether he was covering slot WRs(which was his weakness, which I admitted already) or RBs to when he was covering TEs.

    Jefferson was arguably our 3rd best player last year. I think he'll be a huge loss the first half off the season, then we'll see what happens once everyone starts to gel.

    You also don't realize that Bathea isn't really a good run-stopper nowadays either. Hilarious if you really think current Bathea will fill Jefferson's void. Be my guess if you don't think his production won't be missed.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    From PFF's 2017 FA primer:

    "Jefferson has graded positively against the run in all four seasons of his career, with his run-defense grade increasing steadily over his first three seasons before taking a tremendous jump in 2016, his 98.0 run-defense grade placed second among safeties. Jefferson’s position on this list isn’t derived just from his outstanding play against the run though, over the past two seasons Jefferson has transformed from a run-stopping safety who was a liability in coverage, to an elite run-stopping safety who’s also competent in coverage. In his first two seasons, Jefferson allowed a 111.1 QB Rating when he was the primary defender; since then his QB Rating against has been just 87.1."

    If you want to praise "competent," be my guest. He's a run-stopper. Bethea can fill that role. Bethea sucks in coverage, but Baker does not, and that's who will be in during Nickel snaps.

    Loss of Jefferson is not a huge deal. He's certainly not worth what Ravens gave him.

    The three biggest questions continue to be, in order: Special Teams, replacing CC's production, and CB2. Everything else pales in comparison.
    Bethea at this point shouldn't be mentioned in the same breadth as Jefferson. Jefferson, to his credit, turned himself into one of the best all around safeties in the league. Don't think for a minute that the Ravens GM is a fool. He is one of the best talent evaluators in the league and has consistently put together really top end NFL defenses.

    I think we miss Jefferson more than Campbell.
    Last edited by Biggs; 07-31-2017 at 06:13 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurpriseCardFan View Post
    Wolfley said this morning that Tyrann is looking a little more like "the Badger" lately and Evan Boehm has been looking very good in camp. He then continued his praise of Nkemdiche -- said the veterans are starting to talk very high praise on Nkemdiche. Veldhher and Boehm both saying Nkemdiche will have a great year citing his quickness-strength and Veldheer said he has a "little nasty." Wolfley (who says Frostee Rucker does not normally praise young players) said at a practice turning to everyone "Watch This" when Nkemdiche lined up to do one on one drills with the OL.

    Keim was just on 98.7 and cited Dawson, Nkemdiche ("don't want to hail him to the HOF yet but he's done everything asked to get better"), Boehm and Pierre as having a great camp -- DJ Humphries taking further steps to improve and looks really good... SK had good things to say about all of the 1st string OL. Jaron Brown -- PP21 - Honey Badger "just starting to come around to looking good" -- "making more plays lately" - Dansby as vets having strong camp.

    SK had good things to say about BG and the latter's good play has created competition for Stanton who SK said has been good at camp.
    Ya, I'm real exited about this team. I was online at NFL trash talkers on Facebook, and NFL.com yesterday and the Cards were hardly talked about except a few said they'd make the playoffs. Truly a sleeper, which they play better to. Hopefully they stay healthy and win that ring for BA. Read a great article about BA and it talked about his tough love, honesty. No one said a peep about his kidney illness. Very telling. It would be an amazing story if they did what almost noone ever said the Cards can do..that's win a Super Bowl.
    Last edited by BulldogsCards; 07-31-2017 at 06:46 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Default OK -- Honey Badger swagger is back

    BA had effusive praise for HB in a post practice interview, Tyrann Mathieu is now deflecting and intercepting balls. Honey Badger was finally talking trash today at practice according to BA and HB himself admitted his confidence is really starting to come back in the interview part of practice. Just heard BA says HB was the only one with a good practice and had 3 INT's today -- BA cut practice short and made players run today.

    CB2 and ST Coach Amos needs to get up to par for this team to have chance at SB. Cards look like they may get a break by playing Colts early with Luck post-surgery an issue as to how soon he'll be ready.

    I think the offense will be appreciably better since John and Jaron are back and as far as I know we don't have any alcoholic receivers running wrong routes and dropping key passes in key games on the roster. Team speed is better and with Dawson (who SK said this morning is so solid in his kicks) I think ST will also be better. Let's see some of the games to see how the young defensive guys look and the replacements which have been added on defense to determine this team's ultimate ceiling.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurpriseCardFan View Post
    BA had effusive praise for HB in a post practice interview, Tyrann Mathieu is now deflecting and intercepting balls. Honey Badger was finally talking trash today at practice according to BA and HB himself admitted his confidence is really starting to come back in the interview part of practice. Just heard BA says HB was the only one with a good practice and had 3 INT's today -- BA cut practice short and made players run today.

    CB2 and ST Coach Amos needs to get up to par for this team to have chance at SB. Cards look like they may get a break by playing Colts early with Luck post-surgery an issue as to how soon he'll be ready.

    I think the offense will be appreciably better since John and Jaron are back and as far as I know we don't have any alcoholic receivers running wrong routes and dropping key passes in key games on the roster. Team speed is better and with Dawson (who SK said this morning is so solid in his kicks) I think ST will also be better. Let's see some of the games to see how the young defensive guys look and the replacements which have been added on defense to determine this team's ultimate ceiling.
    2 road games. I will never look a gift horse in the mouth for a break for any team trying to win a SB. Run with it, beat the teams you're supposed to beat. Any Super Bowl journey has some some good fortune. Starting the year, 2 road games. The schedulers don't give breaks to anyone. Everyone thinks they screwed them.
    Last edited by BulldogsCards; 07-31-2017 at 07:37 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    I think we miss Jefferson more than Campbell.
    I think Campbell's production will be missed much, much more. The Bettcher scheme puts Safeties in all kinds of positions to make run-stop plays if they are willing to get their nose dirty. Mathieu, Jefferson, Swearinger, and now.... Bethea (watch.) Jefferson was "competent" in coverage as PFF puts it. Basically an average replacement player in that phase. Baker will replicate that role just fine.

    Arizona has nobody that can replicate Campbell, unless Nkemdiche makes a HUUUUUGE leap, which would be foolish to assume at this point. The hope is that with a quantity over quality approach, the DE by committee can make up for what CC was able to give the team on his own.

    Bethea in base and Baker in Nickel = Jefferson. For a fraction of the cost. And Keim knows it, which is why he stuck to the price they offered.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClutchDJ View Post
    It also doesn't detail whether he was covering slot WRs(which was his weakness, which I admitted already) or RBs to when he was covering TEs.

    Jefferson was arguably our 3rd best player last year. I think he'll be a huge loss the first half off the season, then we'll see what happens once everyone starts to gel.

    You also don't realize that Bathea isn't really a good run-stopper nowadays either. Hilarious if you really think current Bathea will fill Jefferson's void. Be my guess if you don't think his production won't be missed.
    Bethea and Dansby each led their teams in tackles last year. Our first two draft picks will benefit us in the middle. Having Honey Badger healthy even more. Branch at S we didn't really get to see last year due to health...he is a safety that can be used in tight. Lots of career sacks for a S. For these reasons I'm not as worried about the losses of Jefferson (and Swearinger).

    Replacing CC is my big worry, followed by CB2 (and general CB depth), plus the always critical ability to keep a clean pocket for Palmer. Special teams play was a bit of an outlier last year...lots of bad stuff that didn't go our way. I think the new kicker, punter, no rookie battle for long snapper, Logan on returns, and a host of new special teams coverage players will at LEAST get us to average, which will be leaps and bounds over last year.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    I think Campbell's production will be missed much, much more. The Bettcher scheme puts Safeties in all kinds of positions to make run-stop plays if they are willing to get their nose dirty. Mathieu, Jefferson, Swearinger, and now.... Bethea (watch.) Jefferson was "competent" in coverage as PFF puts it. Basically an average replacement player in that phase. Baker will replicate that role just fine.

    Arizona has nobody that can replicate Campbell, unless Nkemdiche makes a HUUUUUGE leap, which would be foolish to assume at this point. The hope is that with a quantity over quality approach, the DE by committee can make up for what CC was able to give the team on his own.

    Bethea in base and Baker in Nickel = Jefferson. For a fraction of the cost. And Keim knows it, which is why he stuck to the price they offered.
    Frosty Rucker healthy and a little more production from Gunther is really all we need to replace Campbell. We have so much more speed in the backfield we don't need the DT to rush the passer we need them to keep the LB corp. clean. If Nkemdiche produces at all as more than a guy to leave the LB clean we won't miss Campbell at all. Vince Wolfork was way better than Campbell. The Pats didn't miss a beat when they let him go. I don't see Campbell as a huge difference maker on our D. Very good player and he got paid like a great player. Campbell wasn't a huge playmaker. He did his job. That's all we really need. The playmakers on our D is behind the D line. If Mathieu is healthy and we get production from our two rookies our D should be substantially better. Rucker is more than capable of keeping our LB clean.

    Our D has playmakers all over the back 7. We don't need that from the DL anymore. We need guys to hold their position.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Frosty Rucker healthy and a little more production from Gunther is really all we need to replace Campbell. We have so much more speed in the backfield we don't need the DT to rush the passer we need them to keep the LB corp. clean. If Nkemdiche produces at all as more than a guy to leave the LB clean we won't miss Campbell at all. Vince Wolfork was way better than Campbell. The Pats didn't miss a beat when they let him go. I don't see Campbell as a huge difference maker on our D. Very good player and he got paid like a great player. Campbell wasn't a huge playmaker. He did his job. That's all we really need. The playmakers on our D is behind the D line. If Mathieu is healthy and we get production from our two rookies our D should be substantially better. Rucker is more than capable of keeping our LB clean.

    Our D has playmakers all over the back 7. We don't need that from the DL anymore. We need guys to hold their position.
    I think you are vastly underestimating what Campbell did, but I think in theory, your thoughts align with Keim's. Regardless, I think it's obvious that for the team to minimize the loss of CC, Nkemdiche's contributions MUST go from "inactive list more times than not" to, at least, "solid contributor."

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