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Thread: Potential Tannehill loss and could it affect us

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belac44 View Post
    Sadly he may be the best we have for it and it also will open up a RB spot. Ellington is more similar to Logan than Penny is.
    Yeah they are more of the "feature back RB" but still AE is scared to return kicks... Brittian Golden it is ....

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardCore View Post
    The main problem you're not looking at is this:

    How much better is Stanton than Matt Moore? Especially considering Stanton would have to learn a new system that Moore already knows?

    We gonna dump Stanton because Gabbert played a good half? We gonna dump Gabbert before the experiment has even got off the ground?

    Anything is possible I suppose, but I don't think the timing is the greatest for what could be a knee-jerk decision.
    Moore is better than Stanton. Stanton is a very mediocre backup QB. I would dump Stanton because Gabbert is much better now, more potential and a fraction of the cost. That said Miami isn't giving up a player for Stanton. Stanton has been surrounded by a very high quality cast and a coaching staff that has asked him to do basically what he can do, which is minimal. Do you really think if the coaching staff asked Gabbert to do what Stanton has done in his limited starting with the players around him he couldn't? The problem with Gabbert is the staff is likely to ask a lot more of him which might undo him. He has been asked to carry bad teams before and couldn't do it.

    Stanton has moxie, a mediocre arm, below average accuracy and he stares down receivers. He knows the system and doesn't try and do more than he can. That's not worth trading for if you have Moore.
    Last edited by Biggs; 08-04-2017 at 06:01 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Moore is better than Stanton. Stanton is a very mediocre backup QB. I would dump Stanton because Gabbert is much better now, more potential and a fraction of the cost. That said Miami isn't giving up a player for Stanton. Stanton has been surrounded by a very high quality cast and a coaching staff that has asked him to do basically what he can do, which is minimal. Do you really think if the coaching staff asked Gabbert to do what Stanton has done in his limited starting with the players around him he couldn't? The problem with Gabbert is the staff is likely to ask a lot more of him which might undo him. He has been asked to carry bad teams before and couldn't do it.

    Stanton has moxie, a mediocre arm, below average accuracy and he stares down receivers. He knows the system and doesn't try and do more than he can. That's not worth trading for if you have Moore.
    Miami was one of the teams with the worst cap situation in 2017. They were looking at a variety of options such as restructuring Tannehill or Pouncey, releasing Dion Jordan, releasing or trading Byron Maxwell, and even trading Matt Moore (they must be thrilled they didn't now). Here is a snippet of Miami sports news just 4 months ago:

    "Trading Matt Moore: This is not to advocate that the Dolphins should trade Moore but if they did they would flip the dead money and cap savings. Moore counts $2.1 million towards the cap which is nothing for a quality back-up but if the Dolphins did receive and offer for Moore and accepted it, they would save $1.7 million and carry only $375,000 in dead space.

    Trading Byron Maxwell: Releasing Maxwell would save the Dolphins $5.5 million and carry a $3 million dead money amount. Trading Maxwell would recoup the entire $8.5 million of cap space with no dead money.

    Maxwell isnít going to get the Dolphins a day two draft pick but if Miami covets another corner or has intentions to trade for one, then trading Maxwell would be Miamiís best way to gain back the money he is due."

    This is why I suggested extending feelers to Miami. Miami did end up drafting another corner to go with their 2nd round CB pick last year. Byron Maxwell is expensive for them, they need cap space now and in the future years, and they have needs where we have potential trade chips (QB, RB, WR). When looking at trades, you don't just look at the players being traded. You look at need and cap situation, years left on contracts, etc. Cutler wouldn't un-retire for cheap, or likely for short term. Kaep won't be signed in Miami. They need cap space, they have young cheap CB talent, they need a veteran one year rental at QB who can either be QB1 or back him up, and Stanton happens to be a vet we may not need with a decent track record as a starting QB in the NFL, and he just happens to be on the last year of his contract. Offering him for Maxwell would be a good place to start a negotiation.

    They certainly need cap space and a decent 1 year QB more than we do. We need a competent CB more than they do.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Moore is better than Stanton. Stanton is a very mediocre backup QB. I would dump Stanton because Gabbert is much better now, more potential and a fraction of the cost. That said Miami isn't giving up a player for Stanton. Stanton has been surrounded by a very high quality cast and a coaching staff that has asked him to do basically what he can do, which is minimal. Do you really think if the coaching staff asked Gabbert to do what Stanton has done in his limited starting with the players around him he couldn't? The problem with Gabbert is the staff is likely to ask a lot more of him which might undo him. He has been asked to carry bad teams before and couldn't do it.

    Stanton has moxie, a mediocre arm, below average accuracy and he stares down receivers. He knows the system and doesn't try and do more than he can. That's not worth trading for if you have Moore.

    That's exactly what I was getting at with the question! I wasn't even TRYING to say that Stanton was better than Moore.

    If you want to dump Stanton right now to keep Gabbert? IMO that could be premature. I loved what I saw last night from Gabbert, but I'd prefer to know I have a good chance of seeing that consistently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Heat View Post
    Miami was one of the teams with the worst cap situation in 2017. They were looking at a variety of options such as restructuring Tannehill or Pouncey, releasing Dion Jordan, releasing or trading Byron Maxwell, and even trading Matt Moore (they must be thrilled they didn't now). Here is a snippet of Miami sports news just 4 months ago:

    "Trading Matt Moore: This is not to advocate that the Dolphins should trade Moore but if they did they would flip the dead money and cap savings. Moore counts $2.1 million towards the cap which is nothing for a quality back-up but if the Dolphins did receive and offer for Moore and accepted it, they would save $1.7 million and carry only $375,000 in dead space.

    Trading Byron Maxwell: Releasing Maxwell would save the Dolphins $5.5 million and carry a $3 million dead money amount. Trading Maxwell would recoup the entire $8.5 million of cap space with no dead money.

    Maxwell isnít going to get the Dolphins a day two draft pick but if Miami covets another corner or has intentions to trade for one, then trading Maxwell would be Miamiís best way to gain back the money he is due."

    This is why I suggested extending feelers to Miami. Miami did end up drafting another corner to go with their 2nd round CB pick last year. Byron Maxwell is expensive for them, they need cap space now and in the future years, and they have needs where we have potential trade chips (QB, RB, WR). When looking at trades, you don't just look at the players being traded. You look at need and cap situation, years left on contracts, etc. Cutler wouldn't un-retire for cheap, or likely for short term. Kaep won't be signed in Miami. They need cap space, they have young cheap CB talent, they need a veteran one year rental at QB who can either be QB1 or back him up, and Stanton happens to be a vet we may not need with a decent track record as a starting QB in the NFL, and he just happens to be on the last year of his contract. Offering him for Maxwell would be a good place to start a negotiation.

    They certainly need cap space and a decent 1 year QB more than we do. We need a competent CB more than they do.
    If the Maxwell dead $$$ is bonus related it can't be traded, I believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardCore View Post
    That's exactly what I was getting at with the question! I wasn't even TRYING to say that Stanton was better than Moore.

    If you want to dump Stanton right now to keep Gabbert? IMO that could be premature. I loved what I saw last night from Gabbert, but I'd prefer to know I have a good chance of seeing that consistently.
    Stanton has absolutely sucked in 2015 and 2016, despite being 4 years in BAs offense and more with him in Indy. What everyone dwells on is he won some games as a starter for Palmer in 2014. Well, in all the games we won that year with him as starter vs games we lost, we were +5 pts total. Go back and watch those games. Stanton didn't win us those games, our defense did. He had about a 1-1 TD/INT ratio and a 78 QBR.

    And he's only gotten older and worse. 4+ years on BA's offense and his last 2 years are far worse than any of Gabbert's years, despite Gabbert being in new offenses on historically crappy teams every year. And he's old and clearly without QBOF potential. And he's expensive.

    We have seen two years of completely awful from Stanton, and one year of mediocre 2 years ago. What more do you need to see?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy-Canuck View Post
    If the Maxwell dead $$$ is bonus related it can't be traded, I believe.
    I'm trying to figure that out. I've found 5 articles from early 2017 that named him as either a cut (usually deemed not worth it due to $3.5 million dead money) or trade (usually deemed the better option...one article said it would remove all dead money). The article I quoted states "Trading Maxwell would recoup the entire $8.5 million of cap space with no dead money."


    The Miami press and boards seem certain Tankersley was drafted so Maxwell can be cut after this season. His contract balloons to $10 million 2018/2019 and $11 million 2020. However, it was made to be either renegotiated or allow for a cut, as there is NO dead money in any of those years. For this reason, a trade makes sense for them. They will likely cut him end of season any way. They have Tankersley cheap. They could still use the cap savings. We could handle his 2017 cap hit of $8.5 million (esp if trading away Stanton's contract and/or others) and then cut him at no cost (as Miami will otherwise) or renegotiate a new contract if he's a fit here. I hope Steve is seriously looking into it. He's a very capable CB1 who could be a great CB2 here...expensive this year but no risk in later years.
    Last edited by Dry Heat; 08-04-2017 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Heat View Post
    I'm trying to figure that out. I've found 5 articles from early 2017 that named him as either a cut (usually deemed not worth it due to $3.5 million dead money) or trade (usually deemed the better option...one article said it would remove all dead money). The article I quoted states "Trading Maxwell would recoup the entire $8.5 million of cap space with no dead money."


    The Miami press and boards seem certain Tankersley was drafted so Maxwell can be cut after this season. His contract balloons to $10 million 2018/2019 and $11 million 2020. However, it was made to be either renegotiated or allow for a cut, as there is NO dead money in any of those years. For this reason, a trade makes sense for them. They will likely cut him end of season any way. They have Tankersley cheap. They could still use the cap savings. We could handle his 2017 cap hit of $8.5 million (esp if trading away Stanton's contract and/or others) and then cut him at no cost (as Miami will otherwise) or renegotiate a new contract if he's a fit here. I hope Steve is seriously looking into it. He's a very capable CB1 who could be a great CB2 here...expensive this year but no risk in later years.
    It's been my understanding that pro - rated bonus and CAP hit remains with the original team. But, I have no idea how things are accounted for if, for example, the Cards signed Maxwell to a new deal with some sort of bonus structure. It's either covered in detail under the CBA (most likely) or a good faith arrangement between teams.
    Time travellers are making being a fan hard for the rest of us.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy-Canuck View Post
    It's been my understanding that pro - rated bonus and CAP hit remains with the original team. But, I have no idea how things are accounted for if, for example, the Cards signed Maxwell to a new deal with some sort of bonus structure. It's either covered in detail under the CBA (most likely) or a good faith arrangement between teams.
    I'm not sure. If Miami did have to eat part of his contract, it would simply mean we'd have to offer more in trade. The articles didn't even think they could get a 2017 2nd or 3rd round pick for him, due to the size of his contract. We have a lot of picks next year. It really should take much IF they don't trust Moore and IF they want to seriously try and contend vs New England this year and IF they are comfortable with rookie Tankersley. A lot of if's but I think it would be great for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Heat View Post
    Stanton has absolutely sucked in 2015 and 2016, despite being 4 years in BAs offense and more with him in Indy. What everyone dwells on is he won some games as a starter for Palmer in 2014. Well, in all the games we won that year with him as starter vs games we lost, we were +5 pts total. Go back and watch those games. Stanton didn't win us those games, our defense did. He had about a 1-1 TD/INT ratio and a 78 QBR.

    And he's only gotten older and worse. 4+ years on BA's offense and his last 2 years are far worse than any of Gabbert's years, despite Gabbert being in new offenses on historically crappy teams every year. And he's old and clearly without QBOF potential. And he's expensive.

    We have seen two years of completely awful from Stanton, and one year of mediocre 2 years ago. What more do you need to see?

    Hey, all of you guys that wanna slobber all over Gabbert's jock because he played well in 2 quarters of a preseason game? Knock yourself out!
    I'll wait a while longer and let things develop, thank you.

    In one minute you SLAM Stanton every which way possible, and the next you're explaining how great it would be for Miami to trade us a CB for him. I guess you're saying Miami is braindead? The truth is somewhere in the middle.
    Last edited by CardCore; 08-04-2017 at 08:42 PM.
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