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Thread: 2018 QB Class

  1. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Sigh... We don't know what his 40 times will be, like I said it has been discussed in scouting circles as a red flag. Tabor had character concerns but what killed his draft stock was his combine and pro day 40 times, go look it up, there was plenty of articles on it at the time. I'll ignore the last part, using a 10+ year vet with his skill set and experience as a yard stick makes no sense.
    I dont know why youre comparing him to Teez who was short and had off field issues. His 40 was the least of his concerns.

    Josh is 6'1 and a good guy. If he runs a 5 flat, sure, he'll slide. But why do you have this hunch he's so slow? He looks like a totally average (athletically) CB. As I said 4.4-4.5 range. His strength is A+ ball skills.

    He didn't start well, again go look it up, plenty of comments from scouts knocking about how he started the season poorly. Also if you project Williams at RT and not moving over to the left, that's dumb at 15.
    He did start the season poorly but improved. You ignored the point about Jackson as well. You praise Jacksons improvement, but ignore Williams. Williams ended the season outstanding. And absolutely Id take a 1st round RT. Do right side pass rushers sacks not count?

    I would hope you are just using D and C as arbitrary numbers.
    They are arbitrary. But its still a good deconstruction of this "he improved" mindset. He started at 54% for 12 TDs and 8 INTs. One would hope he'd improve from that.

    There are so many things said here what just leaves me shaking my head.
    1. He runs 15x per game because it is one of his strengths, why would you take that away from your scheme if it wins you games? I have no doubt Bobby Petrino is very proud and very fond of Lamar Jackson, but do you really think he developed him and put him in a system to get him pro ready, or put him in a scheme that wins so he doesn't lose his job? I'm going for the latter. THAT is why he ran, because he completely shredded teams with his legs.
    I agree. His #1 strength is running. I also agree he was bred to be a star college player. Which he is.

    How does any of that help the AZ cardinals?

    2. To carry on from point 1, the funny thing is they put him in the pocket way more this year as teams knew he would shred them on the run so what does Lamar do? Shreds them through the air. I have watched tape of him firing bullets in to tight windows. I have seen some beautiful down field balls leading on the receiver. I have seen some beautiful touch passes. I am not saying he is perfect but his skill as a passer is completely downplayed and he has proved he improves year in, year out.
    But any moreso than Darnold or Rosen or Baker?
    3. It isn't baseball and you can't stat sheet scout QB's. You can't evaluate him as accurate or inaccurate by a arbitrary percentage. Go watch his games and watch him carry a team with no OL and very little skill player talent, he has to do it all off of his own back. The scheme, the time he has in the pocket, the lack of talent around him and yet he has put up video game numbers through his college career is testament to him and he alone.
    I agree, to a degree. At the same time, you can reach a point where you are making nothing but excuses. Hence: Josh Allen. Its unbelievable how much people bend over backwards for him because he has a cannon arm, charming smile and nothing else. Very, VERY Christian Hackenberg-esque.

    With that in mind: Lamar never threw over 59.2% accuracy. In 3 years. Thats a problem. Irrelevant of WRs. In college, windows are twice as big. Devante Parker was on Louiseville 3 years ago, so nobody can say they dont recruit some WR talent.

    All 4 QBs have insane highlights. But of the 4, Lamar has the lowest career accuracy, and the least transferable strength (running). Not criticism, both facts.
    Last edited by Zaz; 01-08-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  2. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbirdfan62 View Post
    If he runs anything under 4.5 I will be shocked and we better be moving earth to take him.
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  3. #1143
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    Default QB Math

    These questions will be asked 1,000 times and answered differently 1,000 times by this board before the Draft.

    1. Who are the 15 "BEST PLAYERS" in the 2018 NFL draft?

    2. How many of the 15 best players are QBs?

    3. Today, are any of the projected rookie QBs (of the top 15 players) better than ARI's #1 QB Stanton on the depth chart? Name of the QB? (Only the CIA and the NSA knows SK's draft board!)

    If the answer to question 3 is YES, and that QB's name is still there at #15, MB-SK has to pick that QB.

    If the answer to question 3 is NO, then MB-SK has to pick the BPA.

    I don't think SK will pay with draft picks to move up. The QB math isn't known yet.

  4. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTMEIN View Post
    These questions will be asked 1,000 times and answered differently 1,000 times by this board before the Draft.

    1. Who are the 15 "BEST PLAYERS" in the 2018 NFL draft?

    2. How many of the 15 best players are QBs?

    3. Today, are any of the projected rookie QBs (of the top 15 players) better than ARI's #1 QB Stanton on the depth chart? Name of the QB? (Only the CIA and the NSA knows SK's draft board!)

    If the answer to question 3 is YES, and that QB's name is still there at #15, MB-SK has to pick that QB.

    If the answer to question 3 is NO, then MB-SK has to pick the BPA.

    I don't think SK will pay with draft picks to move up. The QB math isn't known yet.
    Stanton is a FA. We have zero QBs.

  5. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Heat View Post
    Stanton is a FA. We have zero QBs.
    In a league where you absolutely need one to win this is criminal for an NFL team.

    It is a total indictment on SK.
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  6. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by native az View Post
    In a league where you absolutely need one to win this is criminal for an NFL team.

    It is a total indictment on SK.
    I don`t have many knocks against SK but this one,,but it`s a big one....a possibly fatal one for Steve....Fix it Stevy ..you are one the clock..tic toc
    The Wilks era begin

  7. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by RimrockCard View Post
    I don`t have many knocks against SK but this one,,but it`s a big one....a possibly fatal one for Steve....Fix it Stevy ..you are one the clock..tic toc
    I have to agree that SK probably should have been more aggressive last year in the draft for Qb being that Palmer was considering retirement. I am not sure though that SK didn't already have a plan for this year. If the cardinals get a guy like Smith or Cousins and the cardinals make the playoffs most all will be forgiven. To get on the dance floor you have to get to the dance and we all know crazy things happen in the playoffs. We were a pic 6 away and a fourth down sack away we should of had from a Lombardi trophy.
    Last edited by Redbirdfan62; 01-09-2018 at 05:29 AM.

  8. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    I dont know why youre comparing him to Teez who was short and had off field issues. His 40 was the least of his concerns.

    Josh is 6'1 and a good guy. If he runs a 5 flat, sure, he'll slide. But why do you have this hunch he's so slow? He looks like a totally average (athletically) CB. As I said 4.4-4.5 range. His strength is A+ ball skills.
    Only reason i am comparing him to Tabor is I just remember the slow *** 40 times Tabor run and it totally killed his draft stock.

    I am not knocking Jackson's skills, I think he could potentially be very good at the next level. My point was more about we pick QB's apart for what they can't do, whereas in other positions we gloss over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    He did start the season poorly but improved. You ignored the point about Jackson as well. You praise Jacksons improvement, but ignore Williams. Williams ended the season outstanding. And absolutely Id take a 1st round RT. Do right side pass rushers sacks not count?
    Depends who you talk to, he has a stacked tape but I go off what I see and what I read. 'Scout talk' is a crock of .... most of the time, but the thoughts and opinion on Williams interest me because some see him as a lock first round, possibly best tackle in the class, others have him down as a round 3 sort of guy. Will be very interested to see what pans out for him over the next few months. And my point is RT is not as premium position as a position as LT. If I am drafting a tackle in the first round, I want him to be moving across and playing on the left eventually. You can pick up more than serviceable RT in later rounds. Anyway we are splitting hairs, I don't think tackle is a position we will target in the draft or FA. Hump and Veldheer will be our LT/RT with most likely Holden (who ended up doing a nice job in the Seahawks game) and Wetzel being our depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    They are arbitrary. But its still a good deconstruction of this "he improved" mindset. He started at 54% for 12 TDs and 8 INTs. One would hope he'd improve from that.

    I agree. His #1 strength is running. I also agree he was bred to be a star college player. Which he is.

    How does any of that help the AZ cardinals?

    But any moreso than Darnold or Rosen or Baker?

    I agree, to a degree. At the same time, you can reach a point where you are making nothing but excuses. Hence: Josh Allen. Its unbelievable how much people bend over backwards for him because he has a cannon arm, charming smile and nothing else. Very, VERY Christian Hackenberg-esque.

    With that in mind: Lamar never threw over 59.2% accuracy. In 3 years. Thats a problem. Irrelevant of WRs. In college, windows are twice as big. Devante Parker was on Louiseville 3 years ago, so nobody can say they dont recruit some WR talent.

    All 4 QBs have insane highlights. But of the 4, Lamar has the lowest career accuracy, and the least transferable strength (running). Not criticism, both facts.
    Just keep it short at sweet as we could go back and fourth about LJ all day haha. I think he has shown enough skill as a pocket passer in the last year for someone to take him in to their programme and develop him as a QB. I am not saying he is the best QB in the class, he doesn't have throwing mechanics or smarts at the line like Rosen, he doesn't have Darnold's size or ability to make improvised passing plays on the run, he doesn't have Mayfield's accuracy, heck he doesn't have Allen's arm strength or size. But what he does have IMO is a pretty nice combination of them all, with the added bonus he has running ability which is better than any QB coming out in a generation.

    If I am picking at no.1 I am taking Josh Rosen make no mistake about it. Past him though I think it is whoever floats your boat so to speak and building around that.

  9. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by RimrockCard View Post
    I don`t have many knocks against SK but this one,,but it`s a big one....a possibly fatal one for Steve....Fix it Stevy ..you are one the clock..tic toc
    It was fatal for Kenny Whiz you would think SK would have learned from watching. We literally donít have anyone on the roster at the most valuable position on the field. Now that I am typing itís mind blowing. Not a single person in the media will bother to ask about it either.
    Still searching for our QBOF.

  10. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    take him in to their programme and develop him as a QB..
    Thats the fundamental difference between our QB views. I dont believe in projects. Theres not enough time in the day nor reps to go around. Nor, most importantly, are there games where the kid is "allowed to fail and learn" because this is a "win now" league. For all we know, maybe Logan Thomas couldve developed into a good QB. But theres no time or patience for growth in the NFL. Especially at QB.

    All rookie QBs face an extremely uphill battle. I think it best to take one whos furthest ahead, so he at least has a fighting chance.

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