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Thread: Will Arians try kicking the ball off to start a game at least once this year?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebo View Post
    After reading some of the non sense after the game this is a great thread! I'm sure someone can look it up but it would be really interesting to see statistically what the Cardinals have done with the opening possession in games since Arians has been here when receiving the opening kickoff. I think we all know the numbers aren't good but I would like to see how many times they have scored. Hell I would like to know how many times they've gone 3 and out or turned it over. Way more than they should. It's as if BA has to get into his script as soon as possible regardless of whether it makes sense depending on what team you are playing, etc.

    Let's put it this way. As awful as Indy's offense is BA will look like a couple fool if he elects to take the ball in the 1st half. I think we would all agree the defense is way ahead of the offense. Why wouldn't you want Golden and Jones to tee off on Scott ******** Tolzien? There's a huge probability you get the Colts off the field and have good field position for your opening possession, plus you get the ball in the second half. Plus DJ, your best offensive player is out. All logic screams to defer. Let's see if BA sees the light
    Agree with everything you said. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the Colts roll with Brissett.

  2. #12
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    What Arian's position says about his overall coaching philosophy is the real issue here. If he's too stubborn and proud to make the objectively correct decision at kickoff, then we should assume that other questionable decisions to stick with apparently weak players and unsuccessful tactics are not based on some secret coaching wisdom or statistical insight, but on nothing more than stubbornness and pride.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas cat View Post
    I'm assuming that's sarcastic....

    Please correct me if I'm wrong...
    Oh it was sarcastic all right. That taking the ball first thing is so clearly foolish and has been something I've harped on throughout BAs time here as a pet peeve. It's a small thing, but it grates at me at the beginning of every game.

    Other pet peeves are choice of red zone targets (tiny Nelson or Brown when we have big TEs, Fitz, or had DJ), clock management in regards to use of the running game with a lead, and stubbornness that goes a bit to far for my liking when it comes to certain players and coaches getting a long leash.

    But overall I think BA is the best coach the Cards have had since being in AZ.

  4. #14
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    things that BA will never do: Cut Stanton, Fire Amos, Draft a short QB, Defer Kickoff.

  5. #15
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    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3USCLEGEND View Post
    Not to say the Cardinals would have won yesterday if they did, but it boggles the mind how he sees absolutely no benefit in kicking the ball.

    Starting the offense 1st puts a lot of pressure on the O to score the first possesion. Statistically speaking most teams do not score their first possesion but he keeps making the same **** decision over and over again. We have been absolutely horrible having the ball first possesion. The defense has a much better chance of stopping another teams offense on the first possesion than we do of scoring first possesion. These are statistical facts. Yesterday was a prime example, not only does Palmer throw an int first posession (saved by bethel pick6) Detroit ends up getting a field goal to end the half and then they end up getting the ball back to start the second half. It makes zero sense someone who has coached as long as Arians see no benefit kicking the Ball first and getting the defense off to a fast start. It's so infuriating to watch because the same **** things keep happening when we start with the ball. We do not score.

    Seriously, can someone from this message board that has connections to the team relay this information to Arians or the coaching staff? If Palmer Cardinals is around can you tell Carson to request kicking the ball of to start the game as an experiment. It seriously cannot get any worse than it has been the last couple of years. Arians stubbornness and pride is going to be the death of this team.

    He is not willing to change at all
    If you know he's stated why he does this, then this whole post is an exorcise in self rhetoric.

    JosEPh

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebo View Post
    After reading some of the non sense after the game this is a great thread! I'm sure someone can look it up but it would be really interesting to see statistically what the Cardinals have done with the opening possession in games since Arians has been here when receiving the opening kickoff. I think we all know the numbers aren't good but I would like to see how many times they have scored. Hell I would like to know how many times they've gone 3 and out or turned it over. Way more than they should. It's as if BA has to get into his script as soon as possible regardless of whether it makes sense depending on what team you are playing, etc.

    Let's put it this way. As awful as Indy's offense is BA will look like a couple fool if he elects to take the ball in the 1st half. I think we would all agree the defense is way ahead of the offense. Why wouldn't you want Golden and Jones to tee off on Scott ******** Tolzien? There's a huge probability you get the Colts off the field and have good field position for your opening possession, plus you get the ball in the second half. Plus DJ, your best offensive player is out. All logic screams to defer. Let's see if BA sees the light
    IMO this is part of why he does it. I'm neither saying it's bad nor good. I don't believe it's about going down to score right away to demoralize the opposition either (although I like that idea when going into play say, the Seahawgs, when you'd like to shut the crowd up). I suspect he wants to begin to immediately tabulate defensive responses and search for weak spots for later. Right or wrong, that's my guess.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  8. #18
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    A few years ago when we were blowing teams out it worked well. Get the ball, score, score 10-0. Unfortunately those days are gone. Something happened with Palmers confidence and it really is not the INTs that have been the problem. All last year wnd the beginning of this he's missed easy throws to sustain drives, throws he made a few years ago no problem. Can he get back to making those throws? Don't know, but it's clear our identity is a defensive football team.
    While I agree I'd like to see more defers but would doing that affect Palmer even more? I'd like to see gabbart at some point. The guy has the tools and the speed.
    chirp chirp!!

  9. #19
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    Something to add to my previous post a couple back:

    For what it's worth. I don't remember the number of plays BA scripts, but if it's the same as what I've heard/read about previously, it's like twice as many as most coaches. He probably would just like to start on O to start going through all that in the hopes of having all the results he'd like before the first half is over so he can utilize that in the 2nd half.

    That's probably not it either, but I just figure there must be some real reason he does that, so am grasping at straws since I find it hard to believe he just does it because he's stupid.
    The question of Daryl Washington.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3USCLEGEND View Post
    Not to say the Cardinals would have won yesterday if they did, but it boggles the mind how he sees absolutely no benefit in kicking the ball.

    Starting the offense 1st puts a lot of pressure on the O to score the first possesion. Statistically speaking most teams do not score their first possesion but he keeps making the same **** decision over and over again. We have been absolutely horrible having the ball first possesion. The defense has a much better chance of stopping another teams offense on the first possesion than we do of scoring first possesion. These are statistical facts. Yesterday was a prime example, not only does Palmer throw an int first posession (saved by bethel pick6) Detroit ends up getting a field goal to end the half and then they end up getting the ball back to start the second half. It makes zero sense someone who has coached as long as Arians see no benefit kicking the Ball first and getting the defense off to a fast start. It's so infuriating to watch because the same **** things keep happening when we start with the ball. We do not score.

    Seriously, can someone from this message board that has connections to the team relay this information to Arians or the coaching staff? If Palmer Cardinals is around can you tell Carson to request kicking the ball of to start the game as an experiment. It seriously cannot get any worse than it has been the last couple of years. Arians stubbornness and pride is going to be the death of this team.

    He is not willing to change at all
    Show me the stat where teams who receive the kickoff in the second half win more games than teams who receive the kickoff in the first half. Points are only one aspect of a football game. Field position and TOP are also part of a football game. You don't need to score to get an advantage in football. If you actually have a great D that can stop teams, an O that gets a few first downs, runs time off the clock and puts the other team back in bad field position with a good punt and coverage gives your team an advantage.

    If you get the ball at the 25 and get a couple of first downs, run 5 to 6 minutes off the clock and punt the ball inside the 15 that's a win for a team with a good D. We had actually gotten the ball out to our 42 when Palmer threw his first INT on the first possession. Of course the INT was actually a good thing since our D scored on a 82 yard INT for a TD. In the first game it was clearly a good thing we took the ball first. It set up our first TD and lead. Our O putting the Detroit O on a short field lead to a defensive score. All good.

    Statistical facts are not facts by the way they are statistics. If you're not a statistician don't pretend that presenting a stat is a fact of why you should or shouldn't do something. If I flip a coin 100 times and get heads 64 times it's still a statistical fact that the odds of the next flip being heads is 50/50. What happens to teams that receive or kick off in the second half? Where are all the "statistical" facts? You can choice not to receive in either half.
    Last edited by Biggs; 09-13-2017 at 07:59 AM.

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