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Thread: *Breaking Down the Oline*

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    So with most things I disagree with, I set out to do a little research to build a counter argument. I sit here slightly amazed. Because Im more right than even I realized.

    This is kind of crazy, I did not expect it to be this overwhelming:

    2017 pro bowl OLs:

    T -Joe Thomas - 1st round
    T - Taylor Lewan - 1st round
    T - Andrew Whitworth - 2nd round
    G - Kelechi Osemele- 2nd round
    G - Richie Incognito - 3rd round
    G - David Decastro - 1st round
    C- Rodney Hudson - 2rd round
    G - Jeremy Zuttah - 3rd round
    G - Marshal Yanda - 3rd round
    C - Maurkice Pouncey - 1st round
    C - Eric Wood - 1st round
    C - Ryan Kalil - 2nd round

    T - Tyron Smith - 1st round
    T - Trent Williams - 1st round
    T - David Bakhtiari - 4th round - there ya go! 1 out of 20 aint bad.
    T - Jason Peters - Undrafted! good for him.
    G - Zack Martin - 1st round
    G - Trai Turner - 3rd round
    G - Josh Sitton - 4th round - huh, ironically both are Packer guys. Maybe that says something about their OL coach.
    G - TJ Lang - 4th round....guess what...PACKER. This is honestly nuts
    G - Brandon Scherff - 1st round
    C - Travis Frederick - 1st round
    C- Jason Kelce - 6th round - The Rudy of the bunch
    C- Alex Mack - 1st round


    24 guys total:

    1st round -11
    2nd round - 4
    3rd round - 4
    4th round - 3, all packers
    5th round - 0
    6th round - 1
    7th round - 0
    Undrafted - 1



    WOW.

    I think I rest my case. Hey Keim! Spend some 1st round picks on OL will ya!
    He picked Humphries in the first round. I guess his plan was Iupati, Humphries and Valdeer gave him a solid base to plug a couple of later round picks into. Valdeer seems to have checked out and Iupati and Humphries haven't been healthy. If Bohn could have played center and if the other 3 guys were playing at projected levels you probably could have plugged a guy in at guard and had a decent OL. It's a complete disaster but you can see what the thinking was. The problem is the OL is so critical that we had no margin for error. That's where the late rounds really matter. Since we aren't getting production out of our drafts from top to bottom the roster has become very thin. Attrition is normal in the NFL but in our case the lack of depth through drafting has really hit hard. Keim has had some really good picks but all of them are out now and it's killing us.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    He picked Humphries in the first round. I guess his plan was Iupati, Humphries and Valdeer gave him a solid base to plug a couple of later round picks into. Valdeer seems to have checked out and Iupati and Humphries haven't been healthy. If Bohn could have played center and if the other 3 guys were playing at projected levels you probably could have plugged a guy in at guard and had a decent OL. It's a complete disaster but you can see what the thinking was. The problem is the OL is so critical that we had no margin for error. That's where the late rounds really matter. Since we aren't getting production out of our drafts from top to bottom the roster has become very thin. Attrition is normal in the NFL but in our case the lack of depth through drafting has really hit hard. Keim has had some really good picks but all of them are out now and it's killing us.

    He tried and I give him credit for that. Hump and Cooper were 1st round investments. Paying for Iupati and Veldheer.

    My point going forward is you cant stop trying to build the OL until its fixed. Coop busted so does that mean you never draft an OL top 10 ever again? No. You try again and again and again until you get one.

    And moreover if you repeatedly bust on OL picks, maybe that says something about your ability to scout OL.

    As we see from the 2017 pro bowl rosters, the Packers in fact have a very, very good OL coach. But just because that guy can coach up players, doesnt mean we can.
    Last edited by Zaz; 10-02-2017 at 01:41 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    He tried and I give him credit for that. Hump and Cooper were 1st round investments. Paying for Iupati and Veldheer.

    My point going forward is you cant stop trying to build the OL until its fixed. Coop busted so does that mean you never draft an OL top 10 ever again? No. You try again and again and again until you get one.

    And moreover if you repeatedly bust on OL picks, maybe that says something about your ability to scout OL.

    As we see from the 2017 pro bowl rosters, the Packers in fact have a very, very good OL coach. But just because that guy can coach up players, doesnt mean we can.
    I totally agree. Typically NFL games today are won with a great QB and winning at the point of attack. With the current state of the rules the point of attack on the OL is more critical because your QB is your most valuable asset. We haven't invested any high draft picks in a QB and while we have invested a little in OL, it's clearly not enough.

    I disagree with a lot of guys about Arians regarding his Offensive philosophy and how he calls games. I do agree that our overall coaching staff isn't very good. I think we have underperformed our talent on D, our special teams are awful and we have done a pretty bad job at coaching up the young guys on the OL and evaluating OL talent. Bowles with a lot less talent did a much better job than Betcher. I think we need a much better overall coaching staff.
    Last edited by Biggs; 10-02-2017 at 02:40 PM.

  4. #14
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    Bingo! Give the man a cigar. Hit the nail right on the head. Not keen on this coaching staff of BA's. Jones isn't the only one who should be called out for their failures.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    I can't believe that Ari S is actually making sense in this thread.

    I appreciate where your head is, Zaz, but the unfortunate reality is that drafting OL has become too risky in this era of spread college offenses and OL never putting their hands in the dirt.

    The way to go is DRAFT a QB (so you get him cheap for 5 years - a tremendous advantage) and BUY your OL by bringing in guys who have proven they can block in the NFL.
    Been Saying THIS,

    especially about the line

    WV,
    Appreciate your thoughts on
    the following
    I got a QB name not many are talking
    about to add to the list to keep an eye on.
    Kurt Benkert QB VIRGINIA
    https://247sports.com/Player/Kurt-Benkert-18603

    I have followed him from Florida.
    Pro style QB right size. Moving up fast

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLCardinalFan View Post
    Been Saying THIS,

    especially about the line

    WV,
    Appreciate your thoughts on
    the following
    I got a QB name not many are talking
    about to add to the list to keep an eye on.
    Kurt Benkert QB VIRGINIA
    https://247sports.com/Player/Kurt-Benkert-18603

    I have followed him from Florida.
    Pro style QB right size. Moving up fast
    Ah-ha, the old Cape Coral connection pays off again for the UVA Cavaliers! Would that connection be you, FLCF? Please send more talent.

  7. #17
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    Patchwork is an understatement. I'm glad we brought back Watford

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTMEIN View Post
    Ah-ha, the old Cape Coral connection pays off again for the UVA Cavaliers! Would that connection be you, FLCF? Please send more talent.

    Wouldn't that be something if we got your UVA
    signal caller? I plum forgot about you being in
    VA.
    Benkert,
    He is moving up and fast.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    So with most things I disagree with, I set out to do a little research to build a counter argument. I sit here slightly amazed. Because Im more right than even I realized.

    This is kind of crazy, I did not expect it to be this overwhelming:

    2017 pro bowl OLs:

    T -Joe Thomas - 1st round
    T - Taylor Lewan - 1st round
    T - Andrew Whitworth - 2nd round
    G - Kelechi Osemele- 2nd round
    G - Richie Incognito - 3rd round
    G - David Decastro - 1st round
    C- Rodney Hudson - 2rd round
    G - Jeremy Zuttah - 3rd round
    G - Marshal Yanda - 3rd round
    C - Maurkice Pouncey - 1st round
    C - Eric Wood - 1st round
    C - Ryan Kalil - 2nd round

    T - Tyron Smith - 1st round
    T - Trent Williams - 1st round
    T - David Bakhtiari - 4th round - there ya go! 1 out of 20 aint bad.
    T - Jason Peters - Undrafted! good for him.
    G - Zack Martin - 1st round
    G - Trai Turner - 3rd round
    G - Josh Sitton - 4th round - huh, ironically both are Packer guys. Maybe that says something about their OL coach.
    G - TJ Lang - 4th round....guess what...PACKER. This is honestly nuts
    G - Brandon Scherff - 1st round
    C - Travis Frederick - 1st round
    C- Jason Kelce - 6th round - The Rudy of the bunch
    C- Alex Mack - 1st round


    24 guys total:

    1st round -11
    2nd round - 4
    3rd round - 4
    4th round - 3, all packers
    5th round - 0
    6th round - 1
    7th round - 0
    Undrafted - 1



    WOW.

    I think I rest my case. Hey Keim! Spend some 1st round picks on OL will ya!
    Your argument definitely has merit, but players taken earlier in the draft get 10 times the opportunity to play. We also need to spend an early pick on another CB.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohinaz View Post
    Your argument definitely has merit, but players taken earlier in the draft get 10 times the opportunity to play. We also need to spend an early pick on another CB.
    Also have 10x the pressure.


    Guys taken in the 1st round typically (not always, looking at you Nkemdiche) deserve to be drafted round 1 based on dominant play in college.

    You might as well bet on the winner in an unknown situation (which is what drafts are. We have no idea who will pan out)

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