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Thread: Steve Keim's Tenure

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Main Event~ View Post
    They missed the playoffs last year on special teams blunders not cause the team looks like a complete dumpster fire that got old over night like it looks this year.
    They missed the playoffs because they had a sub 500 record. They declined substantially from the year before and the decline is continuing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Main Event~ View Post
    They missed the playoffs last year on special teams blunders not cause the team looks like a complete dumpster fire that got old over night like it looks this year.
    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? Seriously, all of us can parse things all day long about the offense and the defense, but if the head coach digs in on the incompetent 1/3 of the game and that translates to losses on the field we're all just chasing our proverbial tails. I know I keep pounding the dead horse, but as long as Jones is here and Arians refuses to acknowledge what's in front of him the horse is very much alive.

    And in reality we don't know that the 2016 team makes the playoffs with an average kicking game. Everything isn't "all else being equal" in a given game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? Seriously, all of us can parse things all day long about the offense and the defense, but if the head coach digs in on the incompetent 1/3 of the game and that translates to losses on the field we're all just chasing our proverbial tails. I know I keep pounding the dead horse, but as long as Jones is here and Arians refuses to acknowledge what's in front of him the horse is very much alive.

    And in reality we don't know that the 2016 team makes the playoffs with an average kicking game. Everything isn't "all else being equal" in a given game.
    Last years team was mediocre. We went into buffalo with a record of 1 and 1. Our special teams were awful and Buffalo ran for 208 yards on our great D. We followed that up with a loss to the Rams, 3 INT's and 2 lost fumbles. We followed that up with 2 straight wins against the mighty 49ers and NY Jets. We came home and had a great defensive effort against the Seahawks. Our O couldn't do anything inside the 20. We split our next two to get back to 500 and went in to face the mighty Vikings and couldn't do anything on O. We than got spanked by Atlanta on both sides of the ball came home and played a very good game against Washington to get back to 5 and 6. We than proceeded to blow a game in Miami when after getting a lead and knocking out there starter our D completely crapped the bed. The Saints came in to our building and Drew Bree's carved up our great D and that made the last two games meaningless.

    It was more than special teams. Last year team never consistently played well on either side of the ball. Ignoring that because special teams were putrid is simply nonsense. The team never put together a 3 game stretch of quality football on O and D and anyone who says differently is delusional. Yes we ranked 2 on D. It was not a great D, it was not a consistent D, it was not a d that anyone feared.

    The special teams stunk the rest of the team was wildly inconsistent and mediocre over the 16 games.
    Last edited by Biggs; 10-12-2017 at 09:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Main Event~ View Post
    Again hindsight, you realize last years team was supposed to be good right? They sold it as the team that was the most talented team in it's history, correct? Tell me exactly where rookies are fitting into teams they expect to win immediately? David Johnson is the teams best player and barely saw the field until Chris Johnson got hurt his rookie year. His plays came on special teams and late game situations.

    This was mentioned all through out the draft process if you were a rookie you weren't playing with the exception of the 1st rounder who got hurt
    What you call hindsight I call reflecting on what's actually happened.

    The team you say was "supposed to be good". Whatever that implies it has nothing to do with the fact that those players are in year two and are not contributing. Just because you've had some success don't mean you cant draft good players.

    Does Brandon Williams and Nkimdeche give you any confidence at this point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    Last years team was mediocre. We went into buffalo with a record of 1 and 1. Our special teams were awful and Buffalo ran for 208 yards on our great D. We followed that up with a loss to the Rams, 3 INT's and 2 lost fumbles. We followed that up with 2 straight wins against the mighty 49ers and NY Jets. We came home and had a great defensive effort against the Seahawks. Our O couldn't do anything inside the 20. We split our next two to get back to 500 and went in to face the mighty Vikings and couldn't do anything on O. We than got spanked by Atlanta on both sides of the ball came home and played a very good game against Washington to get back to 5 and 6. We than proceeded to blow a game in Miami when after getting a lead and knocking out there starter our D completely crapped the bed. The Saints came in to our building and Drew Bree's carved up our great D and that made the last two games meaningless.

    It was more than special teams. Last year team never consistently played well on either side of the ball. Ignoring that because special teams were putrid is simply nonsense. The team never put together a 3 game stretch of quality football on O and D and anyone who says differently is delusional. Yes we ranked 2 on D. It was not a great D, it was not a consistent D, it was not a d that anyone feared.

    The special teams stunk the rest of the team was wildly inconsistent and mediocre over the 16 games.
    While this is all true, it could also be said of many playoff teams. Rarely does a team go into the playoffs unscathed.

    Our ST was so bad it overwhelmed our #2 ranked D and #9 ranked O in yards/game. (#14 and #6 in points). How many teams have a top 10 O and D and miss the playoffs? I honestly don't know, but it has to be rare.

    To the continued point of Diche and Brandon Williams, yes they haven't performed up to their expected level. I would not call them busts, but I'll concede the point for now to further the discussion. What does this say about Keim as compared to other GMs? Should he be fired because of missing on a 1st and 3rd? How much credit does he get for hitting on a 2nd, and two 3rds? As pissed as I was that we drafted Logan, he was still only a 4th rounder. How many other great GMs have Keim's percentage of "hits"?

    Compare that to Billicheck. Just this past draft they only had 4 picks. 3 of them aren't on the team. Two of them are 3rd rounders. And the 4th rounder is a backup. In 2016, they cut a 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th. So if we're going to complain about Keim who missed on a 1st, 3rd, 4th and 4th over 5 drafts, what should we say about missing a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd and 4th in just 2 drafts?

    I'm all for grinding the bottom 5% guys. I'd just like to know if that's what's going on here. Outside of missing on 5 of his 21 picks 4th round and under, Keim has been pretty remarkable (2015: Hump, Golden, DJ, Gunter, and JJ is a great year for anyone).
    Last edited by Raze; 10-12-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    They missed the playoffs because they had a sub 500 record. They declined substantially from the year before and the decline is continuing...
    Right and special teams played a huge part of that seeing as games down to the wire and 1 to 2 plays cost them as this season they are just getting mopped. That's a huge difference between 1 phase of the game being horrendous and 3 like you choose to cherry pick with your examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? Seriously, all of us can parse things all day long about the offense and the defense, but if the head coach digs in on the incompetent 1/3 of the game and that translates to losses on the field we're all just chasing our proverbial tails. I know I keep pounding the dead horse, but as long as Jones is here and Arians refuses to acknowledge what's in front of him the horse is very much alive.

    And in reality we don't know that the 2016 team makes the playoffs with an average kicking game. Everything isn't "all else being equal" in a given game.
    Actually yeah, you make a kick against Seattle and Miami and you're in. This isn't even mentioning New England and a special teams return against Minnesota
    Quote Originally Posted by AriS. View Post
    What you call hindsight I call reflecting on what's actually happened.

    The team you say was "supposed to be good". Whatever that implies it has nothing to do with the fact that those players are in year two and are not contributing. Just because you've had some success don't mean you cant draft good players.

    Does Brandon Williams and Nkimdeche give you any confidence at this point?
    Did David Johnson and Markus Golden not just happen a year before those 2 or is that just so far removed from the cherry pick timeline? Did we not get JJ Nelson and Gunter in that same draft who was a starter on that NFC championship team? That's 4 contributors in 1 class off top. You bring up Brandon Williams like he didn't break the trend of the Steve Keim 3rd round hit https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...und/100766330/. But since the 2016 class isn't hitting lemme got ahead 2nd guess 5 years of solid results though right?

    2 guys are active why are you letting 1 draft define and entire regime for a guys drafting? This is the entire premise of the thread, just cherry pick central and not looking at the big picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Main Event~ View Post
    Right and special teams played a huge part of that seeing as games down to the wire and 1 to 2 plays cost them as this season they are just getting mopped. That's a huge difference between 1 phase of the game being horrendous and 3 like you choose to cherry pick with your examples.


    Actually yeah, you make a kick against Seattle and Miami and you're in. This isn't even mentioning New England and a special teams return against Minnesota


    Did David Johnson and Markus Golden not just happen a year before those 2 or is that just so far removed from the cherry pick timeline? Did we not get JJ Nelson and Gunter in that same draft who was a starter on that NFC championship team? That's 4 contributors in 1 class off top. You bring up Brandon Williams like he didn't break the trend of the Steve Keim 3rd round hit https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...und/100766330/. But since the 2016 class isn't hitting lemme got ahead 2nd guess 5 years of solid results though right?

    2 guys are active why are you letting 1 draft define and entire regime for a guys drafting? This is the entire premise of the thread, just cherry pick central and not looking at the big picture.
    Good stuff M.E.
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    From another post.

    I think they saw how close they were to having a respectable season last year and thought they would see improvement in the oline Wr's and special teams maybe even DJ being better. Probably thought the same about the D. classic case of hanging on too long unlike BB in New England. Looks like though attrition finally caught up with the pats D. So I would say both SK/BA made a huge mistake in judgement. I hope SK don't keep making moves out of desperation looking foolish and desperate and mess us up for next season.

    The titantic is going down that is bad enough don't put more passengers on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterike View Post
    The Packers team that won the super bowl was riddled with injuries (15 players on IR).

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...ers-are-champs
    "Riddled" with 2 or 3 injuries to decent-to-good players at non-important positions, and a bunch of "who cares" guys.

    This is the IR list:

    Nick Barnett
    Morgan Burnett
    Brandon Chillar
    Jermichael Finley
    Ryan Grant
    Justin Harrell
    Al Harris
    Brad Jones
    Derrick Martin
    Mike Neal
    Marshall Newhouse
    Brady Poppinga
    Anthony Smith
    Mark Tauscher

    WOW! Bunch of HoF'ers there.

    Facts matter.

    Fact: Dallas is 2-3 so I might have given them TOO much credit predicting another 8-8 season.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 10-12-2017 at 12:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Main Event~ View Post
    Actually yeah, you make a kick against Seattle and Miami and you're in. This isn't even mentioning New England and a special teams return against Minnesota
    You're making my point for me. You listed four games where the atrocious kicking game arguably contributed to a loss. The kicking game can't be ignored, period. It's 1/3 of the units that take the field. Also you left out the Buffalo game but I think Tyrod "The Flash" Taylor's once in a lifetime performance probably rendered the Benny Hill quality kicking game moot.

    Maybe the worst part about this thread is that a bunch of guys are volleying back and fourth about an NFL team that is below .500 in its last 21 regular season games and re-assumed it's mantle of mediocrity.

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