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Thread: The cardinals will not draft a Qb in the first round

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Yep, you got me! Huge upset! Jaguars talked about as being every bit as good as the Eagles. Lifetime extension for The Whisperer!
    Not sure what being "talked about" has to do with anything, but whatever helps feed your pessimism.

    Jacksonville has, by far, the #1 scoring defense in the NFL, and the second best point differential in the AFC (NE +125, Jax +122.) If you don't think they are legit, then you haven't been paying attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    Not sure what being "talked about" has to do with anything, but whatever helps feed your pessimism.

    Jacksonville has, by far, the #1 scoring defense in the NFL, and the second best point differential in the AFC (NE +125, Jax +122.) If you don't think they are legit, then you haven't been paying attention.
    Understood. I get it. Lots of bad luck around here. It's a shame.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Understood. I get it. Lots of bad luck around here. It's a shame.
    So answer this question then:

    Is it realistic to expect a team who lost their LT for 4 games on the second series of the season, then lost him again for the rest of the year, who lost their best offensive weapon for the year in the third quarter of Game 1, who lost their LG (to go along with their LT) for the season after Week 2, who lost their sack leader for the season after 4 weeks, who lost their QB for the season after 7 weeks, who lost their top-5 (per PFF) Safety for the season after 9 weeks, and who after Sunday will have played multiple games without their RB2, WR2, LG2, $LB, run-stuffing NT/DT, and now is without Veldheer and Mauro to make the playoffs?

    Seriously?

    Dallas fans are (legitimately) writing off the season because 3 of their important players missed 6 games.

    It's vacuous to not understand that key injuries made this season a throw away for Arizona. It has nothing to do with excuses. It's a fact. It's disingenuous to make any positive or negative analysis of this team. Because we really never saw the 2017 Cardinals.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 12-07-2017 at 07:50 PM.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    So answer this question then:

    Is it realistic to expect a team who lost their LT for 4 games on the second series of the season, then lost him again for the rest of the year, who lost their best offensive weapon for the year in the third quarter of Game 1, who lost their LG (to go along with their LT) for the season after Week 2, who lost their sack leader for the season after 4 weeks, who lost their QB for the season after 7 weeks, who lost their top-5 (per PFF) Safety for the season after 9 weeks, and who after Sunday will have played multiple games without their RB2, WR2, LG2, $LB, run-stuffing NT/DT, and now is without Veldheer and Mauro to make the playoffs?

    Seriously?

    Dallas fans are (legitimately) writing off the season because 3 of their important players missed 6 games.

    It's vacuous to not understand that key injuries made this season a throw away for Arizona. It has nothing to do with excuses. It's a fact. It's disingenuous to make any positive or negative analysis of this team. Because we really never saw the 2017 Cardinals.
    Is it realistic? No. Is is possible? Yes, for a team like Seattle. There may be others. Minnesota?

    This team isn't a playoff team even without the injuries. As I've said numerous times, it cedes 1/3 of the game to the opposition before the coin toss and that doesn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Heartbeat View Post
    Is it realistic? No. Is is possible? Yes, for a team like Seattle. There may be others. Minnesota?

    This team isn't a playoff team even without the injuries. As I've said numerous times, it cedes 1/3 of the game to the opposition before the coin toss and that doesn't work.
    Seattle is missing 3 guys. Not 13. 3. And they have their QB. yet still won't make playoffs, which shows how hard it is to win in this league if you are just missing THREE key guys.

    Minnesota is a ridiculous comparison. They are built around their defense, which has been 100% healthy this season. Their OL has been almost 100% healthy, and their offense is schemed around a game-managing QB (although lets give Keenum credit for the way he's playing.)

    The criticism of the Special Teams is fair.
    Last edited by WVcardsFan; 12-07-2017 at 08:03 PM.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    Seattle is missing 3 guys. Not 13. 3. And they have their QB. yet still won't make playoffs, which shows how hard it is to win in this league if you are just missing THREE key guys.

    Minnesota is a ridiculous comparison. They are built around their defense, which has been 100% healthy this season. Their OL has been almost 100% healthy, and their offense is schemed around a game-managing QB (although lets give Keenum credit for the way he's playing.)

    The criticism of the Special Teams is fair.
    Yeah but we did`nt have 13 injured p[ayers when this losing streak started...the injured player excuse is just old and tired....but you are not gonna let go of that bone so i won`t try to convince you...people who watch the game instead of the box score know......they know
    The Big A era begins.... Tick tock..7 games and counting

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Seattles GM is hit or miss, but when he hits, its usually grand slams. In 7 years as GM he has 5 grandslams. Thats alot more than most GMs. Russ Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas.


    His biggest sin is refusal to address the OL (similar to the Cardinals for the last 20 years). Otherwise he pieced together a perennial playoff, sometimes superbowl, contender. Largely with mid-round picks.


    Im not going to rank all 32 GMs in the league, but theres no question hes better than Keim.
    I know you spend about as much time as I do scouting prospects. Honestly, have you heard of most of those guys from Schneider's last 5 drafts? Have we heard from them again? I haven't. If Keim was responsible for drafting those same exact players wouldn't this board have the noose out? And many of those guys were over drafted. (Britt, for example, was taken 2 rounds too early.)

    I just think that when we compare Keim vs. Schneider it should be by a fair standard. I hear a lot of myopic arguments on this board about Keim's misses and lack of hits. They just aren't accurate because they disregard his work as a whole.

    Keim's 5 drafts have been far superior to Schneider in the same time.
    Schneider more than deserves the win on the HC hire, but BA is no slouch.

    And his Oline sins are far worse than you guys are giving credit for. The Graham for Unger trade was awful. Not only do they give up their best Olinemen on an already depleted team, they give up the #31 pick to go along him. They could have kept Unger, drafted one of the OT's and shored up that line. (Just to be clear, Graham is NOT the reason the Seahawks have been successful. They would be just as successful with Willson.)

    I give Schneider a ton of credit for his drafts in '10, '11, and '12. I think he nailed the HC hire in Carroll. I can't stand the guy, but he wins with just about anyone. He scored huge with the draft picks you pointed out. However, I give Carroll a ton of credit for coaching those guys up on D. No doubt Schneider has some grand slams... six drafts ago. Nothing much to show for it since.

    No way would I take Schneider over Keim. Absolutely no way.
    Last edited by Raze; 12-07-2017 at 09:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    So when the Seattle GM has 5 bad years in a row, it's a "string of bad luck."

    When Keim has a First Round pick that doesn't pan out, he's a "horrible drafter" and every guy who did pan out is just "luck."

    Got it.

    Keims handful of solid players arent in the same ballpark as those 5 guys I listed. All "the best" at their position at one point in time. In addition to Bennett and Marshawn. Not solid. "Grandslams". 7 of them.

    Keim has 2:

    -Trade for Chandler
    - David (which was luck, he wanted Ameer, another bust)

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raze View Post
    I give Schneider a ton of credit for his drafts in '10, '11, and '12. I think he nailed the HC hire in Carroll. I can't stand the guy, but he wins with just about anyone. He scored huge with the draft picks you pointed out. However, I give Carroll a ton of credit for coaching those guys up on D. No doubt Schneider has some grand slams... six drafts ago. Nothing much to show for it since.
    .
    Sure those great picks were awhile ago, but they are all still here benefiting the team today. And even with some bad drafts as of late, Seattle is still the NFCW leader every year (only this year challenged by LA). What is accomplished by replacing him? Its a winning organization.

    Youd say "to get them over the hill"

    But that doesnt guarantee success. Look at the regular playoff teams: Ravens, Saints, Steelers, Packers, Falcons. None of them have won terribly recently, and none of them have changed their GMs. 2 other common playoff teams, the Chiefs and Panthers, have changed GMs after playoff failures....no rings for them either.


    I just dont understand the logic. If you built a superbowl contender (something few can accomplish) the odds somebody else is an upgrade on you are very low. Has this new person ever built a superbowl contending team? Its a grass is greener thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Sure those great picks were awhile ago, but they are all still here benefiting the team today. And even with some bad drafts as of late, Seattle is still the NFCW leader every year (only this year challenged by LA). What is accomplished by replacing him? Its a winning organization.

    Youd say "to get them over the hill"

    But that doesnt guarantee success. Look at the regular playoff teams: Ravens, Saints, Steelers, Packers, Falcons. None of them have won terribly recently, and none of them have changed their GMs. 2 other common playoff teams, the Chiefs and Panthers, have changed GMs after playoff failures....no rings for them either.


    I just dont understand the logic. If you built a superbowl contender (something few can accomplish) the odds somebody else is an upgrade on you are very low. Has this new person ever built a superbowl contending team? Its a grass is greener thing
    I guess the question becomes "How much time does a Superbowl victory buy you?" Apparently at least 5 lousy drafts. Does he get 10? At some point, this has to bite him. I really do believe Carroll and Wilson make him look a lot better than he is.
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