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Thread: Josh Allen - Kyle Boller or Ben Roethlisberger

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
    Wow, do any of you guys watch his games, or just look at a stat sheet?
    There were similar, wildly inaccurate assessments about DeShaun Watson last year.
    I think he is real top quality. Yes he was on a bad team this year, and his play dipped, especially early season. But his actual game tape shows he played wat beyond what a stat on a computer screen tells you.

    Draft him and you have your franchise guy.
    Just to be clear, yes, I watch his games. 6 to be exact. And then I rewatched them just to be sure.

    While he does suffer from lots of dropped passes, so does Rosen. So does Lock. So does Woodside. He is certainly an athlete and slippery "like" Big Ben, but his accuracy isn't even in the same ball park. He sails balls while he's under pressure in the pocket. He throws off his back foot when he gets nervous. He puts balls in the dirt with guys wide open. He projects balls into CBs hands and can underthrow deep passes. He makes dumb decisions on 3rd downs. And that's against low end talent.

    That isn't to say he has NO talent. He just is missing the RIGHT talent. He's an accuracy risk and an injury risk (dude doesn't slide).

    I missed the Central Michigan game and need to watch it to get a clear view of the kid, but it doesn't look promising. And in no way, is the film suggesting he's 1st round talent. Anyone who can only throw 92 yards against Hawaii shouldn't be considered a top tier talent.
    13RFoster 36CGodwin 98RDouglas 115DJohnson 157CBrantley 179XWoods 208CKelly

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raze View Post
    Just to be clear, yes, I watch his games. 6 to be exact. And then I rewatched them just to be sure.

    While he does suffer from lots of dropped passes, so does Rosen. So does Lock. So does Woodside. He is certainly an athlete and slippery "like" Big Ben, but his accuracy isn't even in the same ball park. He sails balls while he's under pressure in the pocket. He throws off his back foot when he gets nervous. He puts balls in the dirt with guys wide open. He projects balls into CBs hands and can underthrow deep passes. He makes dumb decisions on 3rd downs. And that's against low end talent.

    That isn't to say he has NO talent. He just is missing the RIGHT talent. He's an accuracy risk and an injury risk (dude doesn't slide).

    I missed the Central Michigan game and need to watch it to get a clear view of the kid, but it doesn't look promising. And in no way, is the film suggesting he's 1st round talent. Anyone who can only throw 92 yards against Hawaii shouldn't be considered a top tier talent.
    Don't worry -- WF has rumor that the Browns love Josh Allen so he'll be gone by 15.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurpriseCardFan View Post
    Don't worry -- WF has rumor that the Browns love Josh Allen so he'll be gone by 15.
    Watch them take him #1 overall. How much misery can Browns fan endure?

    I did watch his Central Michigan game. He played pretty well. The one thing I'll say is that he isn't picking up too many cheap completion percentage points on dumps and screens. He does throw a couple, but nothing compared to what the other prospects are doing. He also is very strong throwing while running right.

    Still has accuracy issues. Still is putting himself in harms way FAR TOO MUCH for a QB.
    13RFoster 36CGodwin 98RDouglas 115DJohnson 157CBrantley 179XWoods 208CKelly

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    Quote Originally Posted by OJ Anderson View Post
    Accuracy is the #1 QB killer...it's kryptonite.

    Study every single throw he has made and see if his 56% is real or not. If it is, no go.
    He's from California and went to Wyoming. Reminds me of Skelton who grew up in Texas and ended up at Fordham. Totally subjective, but I'm scarred from The Skelton Experience. That ride was an E-ticket ride that made me vomit.

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    I think in the right system and a good offensive line Allen can do good in the NFL. Right now the Cards are not setup for him to succeed. If were staying at 15 and Mayfield and Jackson are gone I say take him, than draft offensive linemen. Sit Allen for a year or two and build the offensive line for him to succeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardsfan81 View Post
    I think in the right system and a good offensive line Allen can do good in the NFL.
    You could say the same for any QB coming out, put him in a system that plays to his strengths and give him time in the pocket and he could be good.

    Also on Allen, I know this has been said by pretty much every draft commentator going but he is a skillset, not a QB. He lacks accuracy and poise in the pocket, he gets happy feet far too quickly and also tries the play hero ball far too often. His plus points are he is meant to be a great kid with great work ethic, he has ideal size, his arm strength is better than Mahomes and that is saying something, he actually throws better on roll outs and on the move. I don't think he makes it out the top 10 because someone will see him tear up the senior bowl and combine, whether that's a team picking high or a trade up, someone like Buffalo.
    Last edited by Kyle; 01-14-2018 at 07:05 AM.

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    Allen has looked like poor against nearly every good team that he faced. Yep he had some terrible talent around him, last year he still had multiple players who were drafted from that offense. While the talent argument is certainly a worthy one, if you're talking about an elite prospect, you expect him to play above and elevate the talent around him but he fell apart against nearly every good opponent.

    I'm never a fan of QB's that are basically 100% projection. When you look past a guy's lack of production and zero in on his physical traits and who he MIGHT be over who he is at the moment, that is when busts usually happen.


    That was a lot of the same logic applied to Blaine Gabbert being an early 1st rounder. He wasn't a particularly good QB at Missou and I saw every game that he ever played in. He wasn't very accurate, he had a lot of issues with his mechanics, I never felt he'd be worth anything higher than a mid 2nd rounder at best but the same justifications were used to elevate him into the 1st round.

    "He's athletic, he has a nice arm, he's a nice guy, he's very coachable, he looks like a franchise QB."


    Don't fall for the hype.
    Last edited by MSloan; 01-15-2018 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamArtist View Post
    Josh Allen completed 56% of his passes in college. I keep hearing that he has bad talent around him which is I am sure very true but he also isn't playing against elite defensive competition either. I have seen it time and time again here in Arizona you cannot teach accuracy. You either have it or you don't. I would be willing to bet a generous sum of money that Allen will be a bust wherever he goes.
    Agreed, you can't teach accuracy. He is not accurate and competition in college MATTERS. When you play an SEC defense versus a Big 12 defense. There is a difference. Baker Mayfield didn't have his way in the second half against Georgia did he. The physical nature and athletic ability of some conference players is 1-2 standard deviations better than some conference players. Josh Allen should be completing at least 65% against the defenses he is facing. I would hate to see his fare against Alabama or Georgia where he wouldn't have all day to throw and corners would provide tight coverage and linebackers can cover TE's and RB's. Much different than the guys Wyoming faces.

    The game is changing. Aside from accuracy and arm strength, intelligence matters. The ability to quickly diagnose a defense and release the ball quickly is almost as valuable as arm strength and accuracy. The quicker you can release the ball before the defense arrives, the more success your team will have and keep your offensive line healthy and rested. Tom Brady is the best because he has it all.
    Last edited by cardinalsDO; 01-15-2018 at 01:20 PM.
    Go Cardinals!

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