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Thread: BREAKING: Keim Extended through 2022

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by OG Card View Post
    The difference is I look at what matters and the product on the field, sorry to say its 2 years of horrible football and not met expectations, and thats how I base my assumptions. You on the other hand make excuses and try to think up some expert analysis from your couch and fail to recognize the state of the franchise and the situation we are in at this time. Out of all the praise and award you have given Keim the fact is he HAS NOT GOT THE JOB DONE THAT HE HAS BEEN GIVEN TO DO, and that my friend is the facts. I tell it how it is and I call it how I see it. You make excuses.
    He is widely regarded in NFL circles as one of the best GM's in the business. And his record proves it. Enough said.

    You obviously haven't been a fan very long.

    Most of us who suffered through burned thighs on the metal bleachers at SDS have a keen understanding of what horrible football is.

    It's too bad none of us got to see what a (even just kind of) healthy team in 2017 could have done. They were absolutely decimated by an absurd cascade of crucial injuries and still finished one game behind "contenders" like Dallas and Seattle. Green Bay lost just one guy (THE most important guy, no doubt, but certainly they did not deal with the same injuries as Arizona) and caved. Houston lost their two most important players (not 14 starters, but yes two important pieces) and finished 4-12.

    Philadelphia and Doug Pederson deserve a TON of credit for keeping the ship afloat after losing their starting QB. And they certainly overcame the loss of their LT. That was very, very impressive. I believe we might have been able to see something similar in 2014 had the Rams not ruined Stanton's knee. But Philadelphia would have been hard pressed to do what they did had they had 14 starters missing multiple games or ending the year on IR.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cardinalsDO View Post
    Keim is the reason we've had success but he is also the reason we've had failure. But his poor drafts have also caused us to decline."
    This narrative that Keim has been poor in the draft is so insane I don't even know how to respond. Do you know what the league average is as far as players from a given draft succeeding? I guarantee Keim is in the top 3rd. Even guys that he gets nailed for like DJ now look good. Reddick is still a question. Nkemdiche is trending poorly. The guy has killed in rounds 3-7. Golden was a great 2nd rounder. You need to check your facts. Nobody hits on the 1st rounder EVERY year. Nobody has 6 -7 guys from each draft turn out well. Your standard is flawed and not realistic. As WV points out, the reason we can still win 8 games despite massive injuries was due to the deep roster Keim has put together.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1988CARD View Post
    This narrative that Keim has been poor in the draft is so insane I don't even know how to respond. Do you know what the league average is as far as players from a given draft succeeding? I guarantee Keim is in the top 3rd. Even guys that he gets nailed for like DJ now look good. Reddick is still a question. Nkemdiche is trending poorly. The guy has killed in rounds 3-7. Golden was a great 2nd rounder. You need to check your facts. Nobody hits on the 1st rounder EVERY year. Nobody has 6 -7 guys from each draft turn out well. Your standard is flawed and not realistic. As WV points out, the reason we can still win 8 games despite massive injuries was due to the deep roster Keim has put together.
    Since 2013, fewer than 50% of First Round players are starters. Even if you buy the narrative that the First Round is Keim's worst, he is still ahead of the curve in that round (3 starters, maybe a 4th if Nkemdiche wins the job this year, and the 5th guy was flipped with a 2 for the dude who just led the league in sacks.)

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1988CARD View Post
    Not disputing that he missed on drafting a QB along the way, but it's a lot easier said than done to use a high pick on a QB when you have a Vet QB playing at close to an All pro level and a team that you feel is ready to compete for the SB every year, which was certainly the case in most years. It's very tempting in that seat to add a Deone Buchanon or a DJ Humphries that fills an immediate need. Last year was the ideal year to do it, but they weren't aggressive enough for whatever reason.

    I just think regardless of the QB missed opportunity, Keim has been a very good GM overall and the W/L numbers prove it out. He's certainly the best we've had by a longshot. And he's also young. You'd have to assume that his next 5 years will be better than his first 5 from the experience gained alone. That's typical of any business. And when the first 5 have you top 5 in the league in wins, it's probably a solid bet to an outright no brainer to go with him for another 5. So why wait?
    Why wait? He isn't going anywhere for one. When he was available as a GM, only the Jags interviewed him and they hired their GM days after interviewing Keim. The Cardinals were the only team that took him seriously as a GM candidate. If he has success in the coming years, you can sign him to an extension then.

    I would feel differently if Keim came from another organization whose first year with the Cardinals was 5 years ago. However, he has been director of scouting and Director of player personnel long before that. He has more or less been the guy in charge of our drafts for a long time. Rod Graves has never been known to be a personnel guy. He was known primarily for negotiating contracts and managing the cap. I know it's convenient of the Keim supporters to pretend that he had no involvement with making player decisions prior to him becoming the official GM but that's naive at best. He has been with the Cardinals since 1999. He was promoted to Director of Scouting in 2006 and Director of Player Personnel in 2008. The types of decisions he has made with regard to the draft is very characteristic of moves made in the past.

    Again, it will be interesting to see how he does in this upcoming draft. I would love to be proven wrong on Keim's ability to draft players so I hope he takes a different direction and doesn't target small school players with the boom/bust mentality.
    Last edited by cardinalsDO; 02-13-2018 at 04:44 PM.
    Go Cardinals!

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by cardinalsDO View Post
    I would feel differently if Keim came from another organization whose first year with the Cardinals was 5 years ago. However, he has been director of scouting and VP of player personnel. He has more or less been our GM regardless of who held the actual title. Graves has never been known to be a personnel guy. He was known primarily for negotiating contracts and managing the cap. I know it's convenient of the Keim supporters to pretend that he no involvement with making player decisions prior to him becoming the official GM but that's naive at best.
    Wrong. In any business, when you graduate to a higher position, there is a new learning curve. If Keim was named the store manager for a MAcy's, and was previously running a department under the prior manager, it would not matter whether he ran a department at the same store or with a different company. He's being elevated to a role with more decision making and responsibility. It's going to be new regardless. He's going to learn from things that happen early on, like in any profession. I'm a real estate developer. I'd be insane to have not learned from my first ten years in the business and use that knowledge to be better in my second decade. When Keim was a scout, Graves made the decisions. He was a scout, not Graves shadow. He has not more or less been our GM prior to replacing Rod.

    All this aside, he's been successful. So we're saying that a young guy that's had top 5 win/loss record compared to his piers has room to improve. What's not to like? Sign me up.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVcardsFan View Post
    He is widely regarded in NFL circles as one of the best GM's in the business. And his record proves it. Enough said.

    You obviously haven't been a fan very long.

    Most of us who suffered through burned thighs on the metal bleachers at SDS have a keen understanding of what horrible football is.

    It's too bad none of us got to see what a (even just kind of) healthy team in 2017 could have done. They were absolutely decimated by an absurd cascade of crucial injuries and still finished one game behind "contenders" like Dallas and Seattle. Green Bay lost just one guy (THE most important guy, no doubt, but certainly they did not deal with the same injuries as Arizona) and caved. Houston lost their two most important players (not 14 starters, but yes two important pieces) and finished 4-12.

    Philadelphia and Doug Pederson deserve a TON of credit for keeping the ship afloat after losing their starting QB. And they certainly overcame the loss of their LT. That was very, very impressive. I believe we might have been able to see something similar in 2014 had the Rams not ruined Stanton's knee. But Philadelphia would have been hard pressed to do what they did had they had 14 starters missing multiple games or ending the year on IR.
    Amen, brother, amen. These fans today think that if you aren't winning 14 or more games, you suck. They should have been around when we really sucked and were routinely losing 12 - 13 games a season. Now, that was miserable.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeFan View Post
    Amen, brother, amen. These fans today think that if you aren't winning 14 or more games, you suck. They should have been around when we really sucked and were routinely losing 12 - 13 games a season. Now, that was miserable.
    I have been a season ticket holder since we were at Sun Devil stadium. Our past is no excuse to suck in the future and demand less from this ownership and this organization. Some of us do want to win and want the culture to change. When I say win I dont just settle for regular season wins like the Mediocrity crew.
    Last edited by OG Card; 02-13-2018 at 04:58 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Heat View Post
    A couple years ago Palmer was having a Pro Bowl season, Stanton was considered one of the best backup QBs in the NFL, and we were a favorite to win it all.

    Most complainers are armchair GM/coachs and Monday morning QBs who I strongly doubt have ever coached or run any sort of business or organization.
    Stanton was never considered a QB that could inherit the starting role in the future. We had Palmer who was a good selection but he was an older QB and there was no QB for the future.

    The people who drink the Kool Aid feel an irrational need to side with an individual (Keim) over the needs and welfare of the team. People who are objective and have attention to detail are people who run successful organizations and don't allow personal feelings for an individual to cloud their better judgement.
    Go Cardinals!

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by OG Card View Post
    I have been a season ticket holder since we were at Sun Devil stadium. Our past is no excuse to suck in the future and demand less from this ownership and this organization.
    What in the hell are you talking about sucking in the future? Keim has won 50 games in 5 years! FIFTY! It's very hard to win the SB. Lots of luck involved. They metric to judge a good GM is reg season wins. Not to mention he took over a crap situation and turned it fast. Keim has been elite. There has been no "sucking". This is really a bizarre topic to argue in my opinion.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1988CARD View Post
    What in the hell are you talking about sucking in the future? Keim has won 50 games in 5 years! FIFTY! It's very hard to win the SB. Lots of luck involved. They metric to judge a good GM is reg season wins. Not to mention he took over a crap situation and turned it fast. Keim has been elite. There has been no "sucking". This is really a bizarre topic to argue in my opinion.
    Again another regular season award giver. Lets hang a banner for those regular seasons. Hmmm I wonder why no one does that. Please remind me of Keims playoff win record? Heres a reminder for you, its been downhill going on 3 years now but hey Keims a top GM and THATS OKAY because we have sucked in the past .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFIGJiA1zc8
    Last edited by OG Card; 02-13-2018 at 05:19 PM.

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