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Thread: 2018 QB Class

  1. #1411
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriS. View Post
    Where do you reasonably see the Cards getting him if they see him as their guy.
    Extremely difficult to say. I have maintained that our best trade option is #7, the Buccaneers. They have a QB/no dire needs/relationship with Jason Licht.



    If you think Baker is a franchise QB at #15, then shouldnt he be a franchise QB at #7? Sounds right to me. So my answer is: trade up to #7.

    The 1 thing I cannot fathom is sitting on our hands "hoping somebody slides to us". That is just unacceptable. No matter what QB we get, I want to see us go get him.
    Last edited by Zaz; 02-13-2018 at 11:26 AM.

  2. #1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    The public intoxication arrest doesnt bother me 1 iota. Raise your hand if you went to college and were publically drunk.... If you live a good life, your hand should be up. I will never, EVER, fault a kid for being a kid. Most important: He wasnt behind the wheel, that deserves praise, not critique.

    And he did flee the cops, drunk. If he fled the cops sober, thats a problem. Chandler Jones ran into a police station naked, screaming, while insane on synthetic weed. Neither positive. But not unforgivable.


    As far as on-field, I enjoy his attitude. And NFL players do too. Budda, Chandler and Tyrann all tweeted praise of Baker (calling him a dawg). He doesnt promote himself. Baker trash talks on behalf of his team, not himself. He planted an OK flag at Ohio, not a "Baker flag". Otherwise what does he do? Fight with teammates? Nope. Coaches? Nope. A+ lockeroom guy. Good media guy. Hes firery ON THE FIELD. You say hes a punk? Fine, ON THE FIELD. Thats what matters. This team desperately needs some fiery leadership.


    *small point - Wilks is coming from Carolina, who have arguably the biggest personality QB in the NFL, Cam Newton. Cam is a punk...on the field. Clean off the field. While also winning alot of games.

    This goes back to the Richard Sherman/Darnell Dockett argument. If they are on your team, you love them. Off your team, hate them. Baker is probably the same.
    A lot of that can be forgiven if you're really good like Cam. You better be really really good.

    And the QB position I typically dont like to see the Sherman type personality there. It's too much of a gas can situation. I got nothing against a Sherman type personality, just not leading the team.

    And unlike Cam this kid actually got in trouble in college. Michael floyd had ONE alcohol incident in college. Probably many more where he didnt get caught.

    you're placing an awful lot on a QB and if he doesnt have the right character it sets your franchise back many years.

    And I'm not saying one way or another with this kid. But yes any incident is a concerning.

  3. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Keim has admitted that he was a coward bish for not taking Wilson because he was "too short". And that should be the be-all, end-all judgement when it comes to a QBs ability and height: If he were 3 inches taller, where would he be drafted?

    Baker would be #1 overall if he were 6'3. Period.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...1-overall-pick


    At 5'11 he should be the #1 pick right now. So if he were 6'3, hed be in "Luck" stratosphere. What hes accomplished at his "short" height should be praised not criticized.



    He has outperformed every other QB in the draft by 100 miles. Hes the best. He is. Even if I hated his personality, Im not a hypocrite. Feel free to discuss his perceived immaturity, but dont bother with "football ability". Youll hang yourself quicker than Brooks.
    If you're basing how a guy should project based on his college career and not projected him at the next level you would last about 10 minutes in the NFL. At the NFL level Baker Mayfield has done nothing that any other QB who hasn't been drafted has done. He was outplayed by a Sophomore QB in the only big game he played this year and his head coach took the ball out of his hand in crunch time. To even mention Mayfield with Andrew Luck shows an incredible bias toward Mayfield. Andrew Luck, before his injury was an elite NFL QB. Andrew Luck would be picked in front of Baker Mayfield by every GM in NFL history. Guess what the fact that Andrew Luck can stay on his feet in the pocket and see the entire field and has a full spectrum release point actual matters in the NFL.
    Last edited by Biggs; 02-13-2018 at 11:36 AM.

  4. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriS. View Post
    A lot of that can be forgiven if you're really good like Cam. You better be really really good.

    And the QB position I typically dont like to see the Sherman type personality there. It's too much of a gas can situation. I got nothing against a Sherman type personality, just not leading the team.

    And unlike Cam this kid actually got in trouble in college. Michael floyd had ONE alcohol incident in college. Probably many more where he didnt get caught.

    you're placing an awful lot on a QB and if he doesnt have the right character it sets your franchise back many years.

    And I'm not saying one way or another with this kid. But yes any incident is a concerning.
    Dont compare Baker to Michael Floyd. The fact he's put innocent people in danger 3x now with his drunk driving, I would bury him under the prison. I despise his life, forget football.

    Baker cant run anybody over driving them hush puppies. The incident definitely not a positive. But its very low on the totem pole. I mean Brett Favre texting pics to sideline reporters is 100x worse.

    As for personality: Hes a great leader of his team. His teammates love him. His coaches love him. The media (of the team) loves him. The only people who receive his immaturity (trash talk) is opponents. Thats OK with me. He will grow and mature. But right now, day 1, I am fine with his personality as a rookie. It in no way hurts the team internally.

  5. #1415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
    If you're basing how a guy should project based on his college career and not projected him at the next level you would last about 10 minutes in the NFL. At the NFL level Baker Mayfield has done nothing that any other QB who hasn't been drafted has done. He was outplayed by a Sophomore QB in the only big game he played this year and his head coach took the ball out of his hand in crunch time. To even mention Mayfield with Andrew Luck shows an incredible bias toward Mayfield. Andrew Luck, before his injury was an elite NFL QB. Andrew Luck would be picked in front of Baker Mayfield by every GM in NFL history.
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...1-overall-pick

    ^^^^

    and also

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...1-overall-pick


    You can have your opinions. Thats fine. But dont pretend like youre right. Youre wrong. Dead wrong. People who know better than me or you say youre wrong. Your status will be "wrong" only until youre proven right. Until that day (which wont be until Bakers 2nd or 3rd year in the NFL), youre wrong.
    Last edited by Zaz; 02-13-2018 at 11:38 AM.

  6. #1416
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    All Baker doubters: Read this

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...1-overall-pick


    To still argue puts you in "Flat Earther" category. Not only is he the best QB this year, hes been the best QB for the last 3 years.



    Shhhh. Its over.

  7. #1417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Dont compare Baker to Michael Floyd. The fact he's put innocent people in danger 3x now with his drunk driving, I would bury him under the prison. I despise his life, forget football.

    Baker cant run anybody over driving them hush puppies. The incident definitely not a positive. But its very low on the totem pole. I mean Brett Favre texting pics to sideline reporters is 100x worse.

    As for personality: Hes a great leader of his team. His teammates love him. His coaches love him. The media (of the team) loves him. The only people who receive his immaturity (trash talk) is opponents. Thats OK with me. He will grow and mature. But right now, day 1, I am fine with his personality as a rookie. It in no way hurts the team internally.
    you're missing the point. Floyd had one incident I believe in college and he convinced those it was isolated. Given a million dollars as a professional just increases the chances a bad character goes way backwards. And I'm not claiming Mayfield is that guy.sometimes one incident as a immature college kid is just that.

    But I can bet you andrew Luck was not involved in any type of those situations in college.

  8. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamcardsfan View Post
    Um no...."Baker was charged with public intoxication, disorderly conduct, fleeing and resisting arrest during an incident in Fayetteville, Ark" There is a youtube video of it btw.

    Then there have been the multiple drunken episodes, including him getting body slammed by club bouncers and getting into fights.

    Then there are the dozens of stories on the internet and twitter about his drunk and disorderly conduct in Norman.

    As I said....I know hes only been arrested once...but I'm sure you think that it was just bad luck, and the first time he ever got drunk and went out partying he got in trouble. I choose to believe that like most people that get arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct, its a pretty frequent habit, they just get away with it most of the time. I stick to my opinion that he is a drunk, self entitled DB who is much much more like Johnny Football than Brett Farve.

    This doesnt even include the crotch grab, the flag incident...or other on field stuff. I like that just because every time he was forced to apologize he threw in a line about "Loving OU Football" or "Being a Competitor" people are willing to label him as "passionate" instead of what he is....a self center jerk. He is one of these "Don't you know you I am" types, and hes only in college. Give this guys millions of dollars and make him the face of a franchise and you will be sorry.

    If he's there at 15, I hope we trade out of the spot and let some other stupid team deal with the headaches. This guy is Johhny Football + Floyd with a little Morris brothers thrown in. No thank you
    He took OU to the playoffs 2 years ago. You never heard any of this stuff back then. Then this season, you never heard any of this stuff until the Kansas game. Then suddenly, he is Johnny Football to naive fans like yourself.

    He was arrested once. The other things you mention are hearsay and what college football players don't party. Again, it's mighty convenient for you to omit that the KU captains refused to shake his hand before the game and only remember him responding to other KU fans who were shouting obscenities at him.

    I'm sure you don't have the same criticism of Brett Favre because he is a Hall of Famer and won a Superbowl. I can tell you stories about him and Chmura at bars in Green Bay.

    There is a difference between Manziel and Mayfield. Manziel grew up a rich entitled kid who was sought by multiple college teams. Manziel cared about the fame and fun that came with the Heisman. He cared less about football and winning. Mayfield is obsessed with football. He studies like Peyton Manning. He knows that complex OU playbook like the back of his hand. He studies film and is a huge student of the game. That's the difference. When you get Mayfield, you are getting a work ethic and someone who will spend the extra hours to win.

    My concern with Mayfield isn't his personal issues. I think his personality and intelligence are his strengths. My concern is his height, arm strength and inexperience playing against tough defenses. They don't play defense in the Big 12 and Mayfield had the luxury of throwing to wide open targets. In the NFL, he is not going to have the luxury of having all that time in the backfield to move around and then find a wide open receiver 10 yards down the field. He is going to have less time and throw to much tigher window. I think he can do it in the right system but I think he will certainly struggle during his first 1-2 years. If he goes to a team like the Jets or Browns, he will struggle because they won't match the right offense to him. I think he could have success here.
    Last edited by cardinalsDO; 02-13-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    Go Cardinals!

  9. #1419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post

    As far as on-field, I enjoy his attitude. And NFL players do too. Budda, Chandler and Tyrann all tweeted praise of Baker (calling him a dawg). He doesnt promote himself. Baker trash talks on behalf of his team, not himself. He planted an OK flag at Ohio, not a "Baker flag". Otherwise what does he do? Fight with teammates? Nope. Coaches? Nope. A+ lockeroom guy. Good media guy. Hes firery ON THE FIELD. You say hes a punk? Fine, ON THE FIELD. Thats what matters. This team desperately needs some fiery leadership.
    Opponents like him too. He gets along and is complmentary of good opponent play. You will see him give pats on their butt when they sack him or tackle him. The only time he gets into issues with opponents is when they attack him first. I actually like the fact that he has a backbone. You need that in Arizona. We are a little bit of a soft team. It would be nice to have a little "Richard Sherman" element here.

    If he was not focused on football, I wouldn't want him. Manziel was not focused. He was an athlete and compensated with mostly running and ad libbing. Mayfield is a student and studies defenses and commits. Even against Georgia, he put good numbers. He wasn't the reason OU lost that game in the same way Tom Brady wasn't responsible for the Patriots loss in the Superbowl. If your defense can't stop anyone, that's not the QB's fault.
    Go Cardinals!

  10. #1420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...1-overall-pick

    ^^^^

    and also

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...1-overall-pick


    You can have your opinions. Thats fine. But dont pretend like youre right. Youre wrong. Dead wrong. People who know better than me or you say youre wrong. Your status will be "wrong" only until youre proven right. Until that day (which wont be until Bakers 2nd or 3rd year in the NFL), youre wrong.
    I'm not pretending anything. I don't see a can't miss prospect. I see plenty of red flags. That doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. I'm biased, I love a big strong QB who can hold their ground and make balanced throws when being jostled in the pocket. I also love guys who can keep their head down the field even when they're moving because their not really on the run they're sliding from pressure and adjusting to make their throw. I also like bigger guys who don't have to radically change their throwing position to create lanes. If they can keep their throwing motion really compact and fast that's a huge plus.

    As far as the off the field stuff back in the day when I lived in NY and the Jets passed on Marino and took Ken O'Brein because there were rumors Marino smoked pot I was ready to commit suicide. I watched Aaron Rodger throwing the ball on the sidelines and I was shocked he wasn't the No. 1 pick in the draft having seen not 1 of his college football games. I'm the first to admit I don't get overly hung up on college performance or stats. To me it's the release the vision and the ability to see the field fractionally faster than anyone else. I watched Mayfield against teams that played no defense where he had an OL that was absolutely dominating. I watched him a couple of snaps in the Senior bowl looking like he was getting pushed off his spot. He looked overmatched when he was facing equal competition. Against Georgia he played well but not great when they made the adjustments in the second half.


    If you're right I suspect he goes to Cleveland or NY. If Luck isn't healthy maybe the Colts. If PFF is right he should be the No. 1 pick. Cleveland certainly needs a QB and so do the Giants and maybe even the Colts.

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